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sex abuse scandal.
  • I have to add, my source is totally fine with guru disciple sex, and confirms only the fact of consensual sex.
  • Re. story #5, I am so sorry for her, also I can think of an association of a person with the story. Brindavan and I were in Jadan for a few days each time in November 2002 and in November 2003, and both times there was an Australian girl, but in 2003 she had cut her beautiful long hair, which she before wore in a thick beautiful braid, and had strangely fallen silent. She was maybe between twenty or twentyfour, pretty, slim, lively, cheeky as the Australians can be, dressed in Saris. I cannot remember her name.
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    I agree Roman, in this same sense I see the problematics of holy texts and divine inspiration; we have many examples in all world religion traditions, from christianity, islam, hinduism etc...and it looks like a one big structure of mind-control, especially if some book becomes canonical:::just some days ago, I have read one statement about the personage of Krishna and if he was a real person or not and the reply of someone was in the sense "krishan is an Avatar,k you should not doubt his existence, there is no place for logic and analysis here, either you accept it unconditionally or you are not a believer...". That says much about the attitudes of people and great spiritual scriptures...and of course, my opinion is also or hypothesis, that certain books are so well put together, in this case even Bhagavad Gita that I can not imagine that, if the war actually happened, someone was witnessing the talk of Krishna and Arjuna and than hand it down, to people, the chapters are so nicely structured and it all seems it is more like very masterful piece put together by some scholars and people who decided to have this scriptures that will unite the poeple under one spiritual law and obedience...so, in the manner of what you said Roman, yes, it was written by men for sure...when fiction becomes a truth and truth a fiction;)))

    but in this regard, what can you say about YIDL's Lila Amrit, how do you view it?, and does it represent a truth of the living lineage or it just constructed as another (for this specifical lineage) holy book???
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Mahaprabhuji 1828-1963! As written in the Lila Amrit! What a load of BS!

    Even though I listened to swAmi daily for 9 years on the Net, and I've seen him when he came to Australia, I never, ever bought the crap about Mahaprabhuji living to the age of 135! swAmi most definitely, a 100% has Siddhis, an amazing level of consciousness, seemingly omniscient level of consciousness, but I always thought the Lila Amrit was just crap. How come Mahaprabhuji lived to 135, (it's hard to verify his real age), and his disciple, Old GUru, only live into his 80's? When Old GUru died, and there was talk of him going into "mahasamadhi", I thought to myself what a load of BS it was, and what clever marketing it was, and how deceitful, how wrong, how they make out that Old GUru died in an elevated state! From what I've heard, he was sick for ages, was in hospital, and finally died, just like we all do...in pain...and misery...no mahasamadhi involved at all!!!

    I don't believe in any holy books being the word of God at all. To me, it's just all crap, really. Forget it. Meditate and tune in to yourself. And forget Youtube, and the Gurus on there. They're full of it, too.
    A few links again:
    http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article12473696/Sexueller-Missbrauch-soll-nicht-mehr-verjaehren.html

    http://netzwerkb.org/petition/

    http://www.verletzte-seelen.info/linkverzeichnis/ (injured souls)

  • anonymous1, what brought you to the conclusion that swAmi has siddhis and an amazing level of consciousness?
    Because I on the contrary was always struck how very little, in fact nothing, he has over the years displayed in the way of siddhis, while at the same time acting desperate for siddhis, like when a photograph where the sunlight fell in such an angle as to give him a halo was played up as truly remarkable, if not outright miraculous.
  • and yes, it was shameful how the demise of a sad old man like old gUru, in hospital, from multiple organ failure, was made to look like glorious mahasamadhi by forcing the body of the poor chap, after his death, into the lotus seat.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Wow! Were you there when Old GUru died? Are you saying they actually forced his body into the upright position? My God.
    Well, in relation to your question about swAmi: I cannot explain it. It's impossible. But he has the Siddhi of knowing your thoughts and actions, past and present. Hard to swallow? Yep! But he has.
    That is why I struggle so much. If he was just a normal human being, with normal awareness, I could understand (but not condone) his behavior. But he is not a "normal" human being....that's where my struggle is.
  • I don't remember who told me about the details old gUru's death, but they are common knowledge. I think Sadhvi Shanti reported them in front of a small crowd during satsang. Apparently she found it quite natural that his death will immediately be turned into a charade, otherwise she would have tried to hide it.
    swAmi receives details of his disciple's lives and uses those details back on people, that's all there is to it, and ambivalent language where something is left to interpretation. Soothsayers do it all the time. It's an art but not a miracle.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Ushmeypuri, I am amazed at how fixed your belief system is. Just because you haven't experienced something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
  • anonymous1, I read your web site before you changed it, and on it you failed to explain what exactly it was that swAmi knew and how he has disappointed you. You have failed ever since to give a coherent account of your experience, on esoterikforum.at as well as here. I came to the conclusion that you are simply an incredibly credulous woman.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Well, that is your conclusion, but you are wrong.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    If I was that credulous, I would have believed the sexual allegations straight away, wouldn't I? But I don't. I'm sitting on the fence. But please tell your sisters these links:
    http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article12473696/Sexueller-Missbrauch-soll-nicht-mehr-verjaehren.html
    http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article12473696/Sexueller-Missbrauch-soll-nicht-mehr-verjaehren.html
    If the Sex allegations are true, then I hope they will get justice.

    Seems you are all fired up: Here's a question: How will you convince most YIDL practitioners that swAmi is a sexual predator? Do you think Internet Forums will do the trick?

    I suggest an independent inquiry, a reporter, to go an interview the "victims" and report back to YIDL and Ex-YIDL. What do you think?
  • Fine, but back to the matter of your miracle story: perhaps it's time for you to make your statement in front of a psychologist, like you suggested the women who have come out on swamiji-maheshwarananda-abuse.com shall make their statements in front of one. You want their testimony to be as water tight as it can be for your own peace of mind, and I want yours to be proven for the benefit of my peace of mind. Until then your credibility depends on what you write.
  • To answer your question on how to get clarity out to all Yidl followers, first thing is to get the idea out of the way that swAmi has any special powers.
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    And Devpuriji walked on water and drank acid. And then he meditated and came up with yoganidra. And then he passed it onto other masters like Shivananda, Vivekananda etc... And then he created internet... O sorry, wrong, that was Al Gore. But maybe the mighty Devapuri sent him telepatic instructions from mount Kailash.

    About 22 years ago I was part of some YIDL presentation in Vienna (something like Esotera or whatever). There were all kinds of New Age buffs trying to market their greatness. One guy came up to me after he watched YIDL video presentation and said: "What a bull? I know this guy from Satyananda ashram in Bihar. He was there, learned many things and then left." You can see a lot of similarities (plagiarism) between early YIDL system and Hatha Yoga Pradipika of Satyananda. I think the “tantric practices” he left for himself without going public. As a guy, I can say that it’s a great line to convince woman that it’s great for her aura and skin if she drinks my load. There goes all tantra. If one thinks that by sucking milk out of a jar with your organ will make you immortal, I don’t know what to say. This whole practice was created as an imperfect birth control when male and female ascetics met in the woods and had a good time after their ascetic periods. It did not work that perfectly, same as the all known and practiced “pull out” method. I know a lot of people born that way.

    If you focus on siddhis you will find them. You will convince yourself that you see them or you have them. Sai Baba was (updated after his multiple organs failure passing away on Sunday 4/24/2011) a trickster. Magician. Technology, good skills in psychology and prepared minds of believers will do the trick.

    They say that it’s an internet smear campaign. That anybody can write anything on the internet. Yes. Anybody can write anything in a book too. During my tenure in YIDL Lila Amrit was rewritten few times by the old man and his younger protégé.
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    If he has siddhis or not what does it matter, good for him, move on!
    Regarding the "Lila Amrit", I was re-reading it, not so while ago, and I saw this psychological points within the book, I haven't noticed them, those years back when I read it and couldn't go pass the impression that it looks like a 'new bible'...almost all the schools have some stories connected with their teachers and masters and some sort of stories connected with supernatural powers, which finally must be accepted as a belief if you want to become a follower...what is interesting is, if I retroactively look on my own history, that first books, like "Hidden powers in humans" also titled previously as "The path of consciousness" has this knowledge of chakras etc...and it was a cool book and the knowledge about asanas and various techniques, physical or mental, they can be practiced and you can see how does it work on you etc...and than you came to the personal-spiritual-lineage and behind all this knowledge the is erected as to give some validity in some undefined source somewhere, that you can not objectively investigate anymore (alakhhpuriji and siddhas), down to other guru's in the lineage and all become the representations of the same hindu mythological gods like Vishnu and Shiva etc....and many other spiritual paths have same or similar claims that their lineage goes back to who knows what rishi or a master from Himalayas and they are all more or less incarnations of some sort of certain gods...so there are plenty of avatars and all sorts of god-wo/men in India and they all claim avatarhood and it looks like a circus...you just can not but to see that fact...
    and even in Lila Amrit we can read that like Jesus, radiant light descended into the mother's body and Wishwa Deep Paramatma incarnated in form of Mahaprabhuji etc...
    so, behind all these practices and philosophy there is this kind of aureola, this irrational stories/myths that are constructed, as they serve the purpose of some underlying
    un-symbolizable Truth (that's why we need a fabula, a story) that supports the outer actions and eveything finds its final meaning and relevance, its completion in these divine mysteries that secretly support the whole structure of the movement and the generation of subsequent ideas and workings; as if some strange illogical elements construct the core of the main teachings of all schools, the final source must be unknown, from where the Law comes from, under which all subjects must subserviently dedicate their lives and bear the authorship of the Law, while at the same time not questioning its source; behind all rationalization and meaning there is this meaningless point, illogical element, a 'violent' intrusion of something "that escapes the grip of the Law" - that which gives the Law, is not the bearer of its own Law, the place from which the Law erects itself is structurally missing, and the Law, this meaning, falls after this empty gesture, gesture of a "master-signifier" (embodied in the master himself also; his words work as a master-signifier that gives final meaning to all questions; master-signifier concludes the sentence at some point and gives you the meaning that you search for...) - > and around this empty place (which the master re-presents), these stories are filling this structurally missing gap/hole which must remain non-symbolized...but with the Master-gesture that pushes "the law" in motion, it must work or look as it comes from authentic source and the subjects falling under that law, must follow the law and take it as truth or at least as the representative of Truth, which one day they might see or become...in such a way the (even for God) is maintained and the (promised) realization infinitely postponed...until we wake up one day, into what?
    The promised land is always somewhere else, it is an utopia; we as "speaking subjects" fall under the guise that behind the there must be some substance...maybe we are just under the spell of the words that we speak, the words/the Symbolic itself, which is in fact the through which , beyond which there is nothing, except the empty air of the speaking sounds...we think we speak but we are spoken...

    the is that we are born as sexual beings (divided/not immortal ones like amoeba) and the is that we are being told/given stories of what should we do, the Other tells us and we can structure our desire around the stories that we are being told...the language is the language of the Other---
  • Roman April 2011
    Posts: 347
    Check this out
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    one word fell out;))): ...in such a way the DESIRE (even for God) is maintained and the (promised) realization infinitely postponed...until we wake up one day, into what?
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    I think soemthing is 'eating' my words away here;)))...The promised land is always somewhere else, it is an utopia; we as "speaking subjects" fall under the guise that behind the "act of enunciation" there must be some substance...
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    the "Real manque" is that we are born as sexual beings (divided/not immortal ones like amoeba) and the "Symbolic manque" is that we are being told/given stories of what should we do, the Other tells us and we can structure our desire around the stories that we are being told...the language is the language/meaning of the Other---
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    secret of levitation is great!;))), I already watched that some time ago...it's funny.

    Roman: "If one thinks that by sucking milk out of a jar with your organ will make you immortal, I don’t know what to say. This whole practice was created as an imperfect birth control when male and female ascetics met in the woods and had a good time after their ascetic periods."

    haha, birth control and the woods;)...this one made me laugh;)

    R: "They say that it’s an internet smear campaign. That anybody can write anything on the internet. Yes. Anybody can write anything in a book too. During my tenure in YIDL Lila Amrit was rewritten few times by the old man and his younger protégé."

    interesting information,,,the revisions and updates of the holy scripture...
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    the part in Lila Amrit when Devpuriji takes this englishman, floating above the lake and than says the prophetic words to him, when the english officer surrenders to him, it is clear that the prophecy is in advance told as of future coming of a great soul - swAmi, and when you read it (it might be true or it might not, how can we know) but it works fine as a story-unfoldment and the authentification of the personage's future role...it looks as a kind of "sewing up" the meaning of the whole picture and the divine descent of the lineage which gives it supposed (divine) credibility...
  • admin April 2011
    Posts: 61
    Batawe, cool down, you're talking to yourself :) Wait for others to enter the room. Otherwise I would be financing publishing your book on the subject on the internet and that wasn't my intent :)
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    ok comandante;)
  • admin April 2011
    Posts: 61
    I can do one thing for you. I really believe in free speech. I will create a special category for pandit-type discussions. That will help to avoid too much clutter in the general field and you guys can do whatever you do the best. Of course you can participate in the general category too but the deep analyses would be more suitable for the new one. Cool?
  • batawebatawe April 2011
    Posts: 409
    haha, no problem, you can move my posts there;), but I think there would be not much response;), I am aware that "I am talking to myself";), but it gets out of my hands sometimes;))
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    Ushmeypuri, no I never told the girls to see a psychologist? You must confuse me with someone else, I think Hanuman on the Esoteric Forum said something like that? I always told the girls to go the legal way, to group together.
    You know, you sound a little too forceful for my liking, why do you want to force me into denying the most amazing experience I've ever had in my entire life? The year was 2000, swAmi was in Brisbane, and when I saw him on the Sunshine Coast he proved something to me, something that blew me away and would never be able to express adequately. I do not expect anyone to believe me! I am humble enough and old/wise enough to know that forcing a belief onto somebody is not good! It goes against my morals and ethical code to push my belief on people, I tell my story, my experience and that is how far I go. Why should it bother me if people don't believe it?

    That made me think about why it bothers you so much? And you explained it in the next post: "To answer your question on how to get clarity out to all Yidl followers, first thing is to get the idea out of the way that swAmi has any special powers."

    Ok, you sound like the Abuse Site Webmaster: He also had a big problem with the Siddhis for that reason. It hinders your goal.

    Do you clearly see what is happening here? You have a goal, you want to get there, and if anything stands in the way of that, you want to get rid of it. More precisely: swAmi having Siddhis is very inconvenient to you and your mission, and you want to ridicule or silence people who say that he indeed has Siddhis.

    Ok, everybody knows that swAmi is not my friend or guru anymore, I have left him, and I created the false guru website in March 2010. But to me, integrity is very important, and therefore, amongst the bad things I have said about the Swami, I also have to say the good things, as well as the FACT that he has Siddhis.

    I can't change that fact. Nor do I want to convince anyone, as I said, I don't care one bit what people believe, nor do I care if you want to ridicule me. Be my guest! Elisabeth
  • Durchanand April 2011
    Posts: 74
    what´s the talk about siddhis??? I mean even swAmi said correctly according to Patanjali
    that siddhis are coming before enlightenment or whatever and they are just the second level of maya for the yogi. The next big ego testing. Many demons in the old stories had siddhis and got boons from the gods. Let him have siddhis. That does not make him different. Just another DICKtator as we found out lately.

    And another point: my personal belief about this siddhi or whatever power thing is: others only can have power over you when you have fear or you have your door open in some other way (like total devotion, blind faith etc.) or that. So with some people swAmi might have "siddhis" which he cannot display with other people. I have no fear of him and his powers if he should have any...my door is locked...

    and the lila amrit is obviously a fairy tale book. someone wrote me some days ago: "old gUru was also in on it. He wrote the Lila Amrit and added the bits at the end about swAmi being one of the seven rishis etc. Its all ... brainswashing.
    When holy old gUru first wrote the living light is was a thin little book with no mention of swAmi at the end and had stories of Devpuriji smoking hash, by the way..."

    Does any one have these first lila amrit editions when it was called living light? Would be good to check.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    as regard siddhis and their consequences, I think the following and I write it down in the hope that this may help settling the issues about siddhis... (it may go to the panditry section, if you think, Roman)

    if we call some of swAmi’s (or other yogis’ or similar persons’) qualities siddhis or supernatural powers or anything similar, we may also remember* that having such a siddhi is not a proof of being (absolutely) enlightened (for good), or of being someone we should follow with blind trust, or of having other siddhis... for example, that of being able to cause anyone special harm beyond what is – we might say – natural... one would certainly suffer from internal and external conflicts when criticising or accusing someone – previously or otherwise – trusted, and from the consequences of leaving a community and its activities, breaking friendships and other relations, feeling disappointed by things and people previously respected etc.

    in my view, having a deep understanding of other people’s thoughts and present, past and (probable) future situation from very little information (from a few words or acts) we may call a siddhi, or we may also see it as a quality we all may more or less develop... I think this is one of the hidden or not so hidden powers in us... it comes from getting to know how we ourselves function basically...

    in summary, we may see these capabilities natural but rare extremes of a spectrum, or we may see them supernatural or anything equivalent to it, but they should still not form a basis for irrational fear or exaggerated positive illusions about that person...

    * as far as I know, anyone and any source seriously speaking of siddhis also says that we are better off without them, we should not try to achieve them, should not boast with them and almost never ever use them, and should be well aware of their dangers, that they could also be used for negative purposes, and that they themselves are an obstacle in our path because having a siddhi can easily make us proud and our ego inflated even if we do not use it for bad or for anything... as much as anything we achieve by our own efforts is also – paradoxically – an obstacle... because it makes us feel special, it makes us feel “I” have achieved this or that... this is also a part of why I finally decided to become disciple... I see it as similar to an “upaaya” – a Buddhist term for something like a useful method, or a somewhat tricky method... or like a ferryboat that takes us to the other shore but we shouldn’t take this boat with us when we have crossed the river... nor should we not keep in high respect of course... in other words, the purpose is to become needless of any master (to become antaryaami) with the knowledge that a good master will always remain useful for keeping our ego down and our spirits up, and to resolve this paradox between the “I have to make the efforts” and the “na 'ham kartaa” (=I am not the doer)... in my understanding, the Buddhist philosophy of the Middle Way expresses the same paradox when stating that whoever believes that there is an “I” (Self, aatman etc.) is wrong, and whoever believes that there is no “I” is also wrong :) :) :)
    and certainly, a good master is also useful as a common denominator, a uniting force for many otherwise different-minded people.

    all the best to everyone,
    someonefromhungary
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] April 2011
    Posts: 0
    In relation to his Siddhis: I gave swAmi a mental challenge, a test, and I said to him mentally, if he passes this test, then that's enough proof for me that he is "the real thing", "God", "God in human form". He passed the test with flying colors!
    So the mistake I made was to think by swAmi having such advanced knowledge/Telepathic ability/Siddhi, or whatever you want to call it, he is really what all his disciples tried to tell me from day one: That he is a true Guru, a Holy Man, Brahma-nishtha Srotriya: One who is established in the direct knowledge of Brahman, knower of past, present and future. (I think I read that term in one of his books, maybe it was the Hidden Power in Humans)

    Then of course, he completely stuffed up predicting my future, not only that, the way it was done was like a cruel and unnecessary game. Now I have spent years and years trying to understand why he would do something like that to me.

    If it wasn't for his display of special abilities I would not even give him one second of my time, I would have been able to forget my swAmi years. It is not that I am scared of him, because in one year of me speaking out against him, no harm has come to me at all! No, the reason why I am still pondering and trying to understand is this:

    I assumed that only a very pure and advanced person would be able to develop such amazing abilities! I assumed (well, read it in books) that "God" would only give Siddhis to those who deserve it, and if you misbehave....well....they would be taken away again!

    I therefore assumed that maybe I was the idiot, I didn't understand, and that maybe hopefully one day in the not so distant future, swAmi would explain to me why he said what he said, or I would find out it was all for the best.

    Since then I have done a lot of reading, I communicated with a lot of people and I am horrified by the prospect that swAmi has used special "supernatural" abilities for his gain. I am also horrified to think that he might have a sadistic nature as well, where he enjoys playing games and completely and utterly confusing people.

    This prospect is so horrifying, it is beyond words. I still hope that the sexual allegations are not true, that I am an idiot, and all will be well.

    However, if the allegations are true, then there is no doubt left in me at all: He would have used his Siddhis for his own gain and pleasure. God only knows how much Karma such behavior would incur. From what I've read about karmic consequences, a Yogi with Siddhis who misbehaves will be punished heaps more than a normal human being.
    Elisabeth, Australia
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