WE HAVE MOVED!!!

Visit our new, improved website at www.beyondorange.org

ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN JANA MAGAZINE:

Original

ARTICLE IN SLOVENIAN PRIMORSKE NOVICE MAGAZINE:

English, Hungarian

ARTICLE IN AUSTRIAN PROFIL MAGAZINE:

German, English, Hungarian, Czech, Serbian, Slovenian

CALL TO ALL OFFICIALS OF THE ORGANIZATION

English, Croatian, Czech, Hungarian, Slovenian, German, Serbian

Don´t ignore not everybody believes
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @SatyaKali_Deva: Uuuuuuu... What is this?
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @SatyaKali_Deva: You are wrong, SatjaKali...
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @SunYaC: I'm impressed by your words. My personal advise is to ignore Pandora and SatyaKali_Deva for the moment, until they get to their senses and stop the name calling.
  • pandora May 2011
    Posts: 10
    XXXXX is not a cult and there are several reasons why i say that. first is that anyone can be involved, there are no rules, there are never any rules, some guides maybe that serve to assist the overall organisation in any particular area
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @pandora:
    YIDL is an organisation with more than one layer: the first are participants of yoga exercises in clubs, school and kindergarden gyms, culture houses, public or private gyms... To the second layer they participants (not yet memebers) are invited by posters, flyers and personal invitation of older members and instructors: social events of organisation like yoga picnics, open lectures, public meetings, XXXXX yoga introducion lectures... Third layer is when one starts to (deliberately) follow the meetings with guru in other places- going around with yoga croud, spending hollidays in yoga retreats with XXXXX... encouraged, asked and supported by older members to take mantra. Next layer is when one takes mantra (deliberatly) and start regulary follow satsangs with XXXXX and learns all the methods of brainwashing that you know very wel. Among other methods - hours of gurugitas per week and hours of heart chakra meditating on guru that are very succesfull specially with young sensitive spiritual seekers. It ends up in guru knows the best and one should die for guru and such "normalities" as drinking the guru's feetwash and taking his holly prashad in mouth as blessing (that normal world surely doesnt understand).

    For me it is clear. Together with what is the guru principle, the outcome cannot be any different as it happened here and in many other religious systems having guru between student and God. Guru is just a human. No human in any system should not have the right to take on him the responsability of the student to that extend, that student should give (donate!!) to his guru his MIND, SOUL, HEART and even BODY!!! In western legal system this should be a big warning sign AND SUCH ORGANISATION SHOULD BE RECOGNISED AS ILLEGAL.

    Such an organisation should be LEGALY treated as a CULT!
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @karavan:
    You are completely right. The master needs those who are on the outside, being the multitudes providing money, image, good name of somebody recognized by crowds (it can’t be wrong if that many people follow him), but then he needs his confidantes, who will do most of the dirty work for him. I have to admit, I was one of them. I tried to do the dirty work as cleanly as possible, but at the end I ended up with really sick feeling in my stomach. I was even beyond the layer (tier) 3, I was in 4 and many times (definitely for the US affairs) 5,6,7 or whatever you name it. I guess, there was always another layer (tier) above mine just because of the fact that I don’t have b…bs :-) 3 >= You get the picture.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Roman: A former devotee of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, another Indian guru, has described 'Steps of Evolution(?) in AOL' (Art Of Living, the organisation of Shankar)

    http://aolfree.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/steps-of-evolution-in-aol/

    Do you recognise a lot?
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    nice one
  • speakup May 2011
    Posts: 57
    Thanks Truthseeker - this really describes the process of indoctrination and waking up beautifully.
  • speakup May 2011
    Posts: 57
    This is from the same site, and is also good to read:

    http://artoflivingfree.blogspot.com/2010/05/life-after-leaving-aol.html
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    "Baremuenze, finally I’ve figured out the meaning of your user name. I admit that I had a little help. I have been out of German sprache for quite a while, so even I can still understand it pretty well (speaking takes much more time :), some nuances got lost in passing of time.

    Du kannst es (nicht) für bare Münze nehmen (You can or can not take things for certain).

    I actually like the version with both possibilities in one. You (or the saying) are totally right. Maybe both. Thank you for participating in the discussion :)

    Roman"

    - yes, Baremuenze also means to take a lie for truth ;).


    So dear people,

    now you can see who remain at your discussion...only these one who want to believe. I already mentioned, that most disciples remain at Yoga In Every Day, some who left returned back and the whole situation calms down.

    I returned back to my everyday life and my time is unfortunately limited. Like me, most of people have they day to day work and have to care for things, they focuse.
    So till now I didn´t get any evidence and the internet dicussion is a bottomless pit.

    You got information, so either you believe or not. If you believe you go along, if you don´t believe you go along. From time to time some disciples still join your discussion here and there, but all the upset calmed down and is still calming down.


    Baremuenze
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @baremuenze: it's everyone's personal choice to either listen to the wake up call or go back to sleep again. But there may be more wake up calls coming, and if you keep ignoring them, one day you may wake up to find yourself in an mess and wishing you had listened to the earlier calls. Still, it's never too late to wake up, better late than never.
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @baremuenze:
    dear Baremuenze,
    some of us not only has information from the internet. some of us contacted those women and other people. and I think everyone of us considers lots of other experiences with swAmi and yidl when deciding who and what to believe.
    I appreaciate your particpation again, especially when you say your time is quite limited, and especially your respectful way of communication.
    all the best,
    someonefromhungary
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @someonefromhungary:
    Reply to all:

    And I thank you for your respectful way of communication, too.

    All the best :).
  • Mother May 2011
    Posts: 14
    I am mother of one of the girls wich testimonies appeared on the abuse web page.
    Baremuenze, if you want to go deeper into the search for the truth, we can speak private, I can email you and you can get the first hand info from my doughter too, if you only want.

    I was the one that brought my 14 old doughter to the yoga exercise class in the culture home in our village. When my doughter became extremely involved in other YIDL activities, visiting seminars etc, I became quite worried about all this and started to follow some of the seminars where swAmi convinced me he was an honest teacher. I even took mantra and became his student myself. That's why I was as so many others totaly shocked about this situation.

    After I got shocking confession from my doughter, I got contacts with other women with the same experience. The testimonies on the web page are from 6 different women from 5 different countries (2x Slovenia, Germany, New Zealand, Czech R, Croatia), I had long talks by skype with 5 of them. Believe me, mother would rather not believe such a thing, but the evidence was too strong to let any doubts.

    It is not true that this came out all in a sudden. They were trying to tell what happened to them to their collegues in the past, but now we see in the public and in front of our eyes what does it mean to touch this subject... the preassure by YIDL and their own „friends“ is tremendous. swAmi himself asked my doughter's best, friends, a couple from which the woman was even her marriage witness, to sent to wide slovenian yoga society a letter with very intimate personal secrets, trusted only to them, to describe her as not credible, and they did it.

    Please contact me.
    Greetings, Maja B.G.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    baremuenze we, the Roman's fighters will not give up and contact every single yidl association and practitioners warning them about the personal cult and abuses danger. Only correctly informed people can think and decide.
  • alwayslookwithin May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @pavitra:
    WHAT A MISERABLE LIFE YOU HAVE
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    @baremuenze:
    Dear Baremuenze, thank you for polishing up my Deutsch. It almost seems as if we had done it before. I might be wrong. But one thing I know. Ray Bradbury would be proud of us. We have just proved his and other sci-fi enthusiasts theory of parallel universes. You are saying that people are coming back and everything is back to normal on swAmi’s side. Well, the grass is not that green from where I stand. Look at Australia. Even with the latest update of Australia_Calling that the picture is grim (depends on what side you stand on), it is still a fact that the most capable people have resigned and old dirty tactics have been employed. You may say that I am wrong. Hard to say. I fully trust this person, but even if that is not truth, all I can trust is myself, right? I have many facts which I cannot publish at this moment, because people are scared, confused and you name it, that there is a clear division in impenetrable lines of the almighty Empire’s image. Those people, who I always valued as thinkers, down to Earth, honest and good individuals are coming to conclusion that there is something rotten in Danish Kingdom (no offense to our Danish friends, Shakespeare was an English man :) I do respect your willingness to at least come and hold your ground. In that I am completely on your side. But I cannot leave just an empty propaganda without a counterattack. Sorry. I think, personally, that you are a very intelligent, caring and good person. I hope that you will come back. I know the best how somebody’s time can be limited. But it’s worthy. For you same as for me. Just think about it. Whichever way things will turn out, don’t you want to be one of those, who can always say with clear mind and conscious: “I gave as much as I could to what I believe in”? This is for me (and that is my very personal and individual opinion) much more than any promise of moksha (liberation) or salvation. I know that when the time comes and I have to go, I’ll go to my final sleep in peace. And then I can rest and not to worry about being busy and having enough time. Please, come back, you are needed,

    Roman
  • alwayslookwithin May 2011
    Posts: 0
    Just so it's clear, are there about 5 people on this forum that are totally against XXXXX? and they continue making comments from the beginning till now? especially against anyone who has anything positive to say or express their debt of gratitude to their Teacher?

    Because it seems that way and even though i have read so much, i still don't believe it.
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    To alwayslookwithin: I made the same observation on the now deleted European forums, in Croatia, Slovania and Germany. The negative comments seemed to come from a very small group of people, who used a lot of aggression to push their agenda and beliefs. What I have observed here, is that other people, with little complaints, also joined in. But there are gone now, or so it seems. Don't know why, really.
    I would suggest to people to get a little bit better organised: No good making comments here..after a while no-one will find your posts. Much better to get "real". Make a website and get organised: List your grievances in order and put your name to it. No name in my view means: CHICKEN! That goes for the victims...I know 3 are out now...but the rest should come out and force the Swami into confession, if he is guilty. If they don't, means to me, they are telling fibs. Simple as that.

    And unless they actually go to the authorities and get a written report/complaint, not many people are going to take them seriously.
  • RatanPuri May 2011
    Posts: 42
    John, how do you think what business anyone, especially victims, has in revealing itself to someone. I think that some people were interested in what they want to tell, they published it. That's all. They are not trying to convince anyone. Would you try to convince the world you were abused announcing it to everyone? Probably they just met people who believe them who think it is their duty to announce it - woudnt you do it if you meet fully credible person to you? And imagine that person doesnt have any interest in telling it to all but actually is just happy someone listened to her after long time so agree to publish it but anonimously. How you can dare to name someone chicken expecting to do what you want...pfff. Arrogance...
  • John_Sceptic May 2011
    Posts: 30
    Ratanpuri, you do have a very good point. I agree. Coming from your point of view, I agree. But coming from my side, I disagree. If I had Sex with the Swami, and 15 years later wanted to help other girls, and expose the Swami, I would put my name to it. Even if someone tried to drag it out of me, and me being reluctant..I would still either shut up, or talk and put my name to it. Allegations of sexual misconduct are VERY serious, it ruins people and careers, so therefore I would not accuse someone of that without putting my name to it. I find it really, really strange that none of the girls, the "victims" have made a website or blog. Seems they are using men to do it for them. Why? Elisabeth "falseguru" made her own website? Why don't the other ladies get organised without the help of men?
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @John_Sceptic:
    So, what's your name, John?
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    That hate someone had mentioned doesn't come from some senseless rage. It's a product of feeling of being cheated. Also we want to alarm people for the danger they are in and the danger they may put others in.
  • RatanPuri May 2011
    Posts: 42
    John, I understand what you mean and probably many people think like you. But from their point of view maybe they are not accusing - they are sharing private experiences to people who have inner feeling of duty to warn others? Warn but not fight. Who wants to get to the source is offered a possibility.
    I think it is more in hands of people who actually dedicate their life being in boards of society to explore and of everyone who dedicated life to a spiritual path to explore what is behind the words of brothers and sisters and not just expecting others to do what they want.
    So anyone can take action in ones hand, however I know just expecting and even blaming someone is not doing as we want is more comfortable.
    So John, you I think can be a perfect person to go even personally, make interviews, collect evidences and proceed with the case.
  • SunYaC May 2011
    Posts: 41
    John, if I would be the wictim, I definitely would not undertake such risk and wouldn't be willing to face the pressure and threats from the swAmi fanatics by revealing my identity..
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    There is also a feeling of humiliation, some of the victims have a new life, husband, children. Some of them only want to forget. For others writing the testimonies is a kind of relieve therapy. However don't forget that Nika went public. And you can see how many s**t some people are putting on her on the top of everything what had happen to her. Even if everyone is going public, taking court measures, cult mindset will start to find explanations.
    The best we can do is prevent as much as possible new recruitment, something we should have done ten years before...
    SwAmi defenders, don't be afraid of putting your real mail when signing in, 4 me he is the only enemy, everybody else are victims only in different degrees.
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Ivan: swAmi is also victim in a way, of his own kama, krodha, moha, lobha and ahamkara (remember the terms?). But if he doesn't stop making other people victims of his vices too, we must try to stop him as much as possible. Not out of revenge, but for protection.
  • joyriver June 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @truthseeker: :) :) :)
  • Connex May 2011
    Posts: 49
    @Ex-Swami Rameshwaranand: yes, going in peace to your final sleep is what you do imagine now. But who knows … Anyhow, I m pretty sure you’ll get rewarded in your next life becoming a woman ^^
    There you’ll get plenty of opportunities to study the complex female psyche, with its immense imaginative talent and sexual manipulation and finally continue to figure out the real context of this “sex scandal”. Again, your life will become a success.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that you will be reborn in glorious U.S.A.

    The master, whom you accuse has poured out so much love and support to all – and still does! Even you yourself do not know where you would stand if he had not helped you.

    Memories of him are still adding a form of power to your life. However, the straw is kindled in two ways, when the fire falls onto the straw, or if the straw falls into the fire. You still call his name and so you get his “form” …

    But no one was betrayed by him! You are on the wrong track …

    I personally know four of the so-called “victims” and some of their "civil lawyers" now, and had the opportunity to study already years ago their quirky personalities that were full of bizarre ideas, anger, self-absorbed emotions and disguised erotic fantasies. I've always kept distance from them after I knew them more closely.

    But it’s your business. Go on with your hunting and things …. Otherwise you may risk to feel a lack of meaning in life (I know several people who feel alive only in a resistance-based fight. So, why not?). So I hope for you that it's all worth at the end …

    Put him into jail or elsewhere, he will continue as long as he lives to enlighten all those around him who are ready to understand ….

    I would like to share many uplifting stories and miracles with you, but you are not open anymore. One must have a pure heart to understand “the reasons behind”. Of course, not that sort of ‘pure heart’ that results from the subjectively perceived righteousness after a more or less successful battle or Robin Hood mission.

    I am very sorry for you - knowing that you are doing the same way for me ;-)

    Hari OM
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Devotees' testimonies:

Devotee #1

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Devotee #2

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Devotee #3

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Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

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Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

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Devotee #6

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Devotee #7

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