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Don´t ignore not everybody believes
  • truthseeker May 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Connex: what do you mean with:

    "you’ll get plenty of opportunities to study the complex female psyche, with its immense imaginative talent and sexual manipulation and finally continue to figure out the real context of this sex scandal"

    Are you saying that these six women manipulated their master into having sex with them?
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @Connex:
    This is even better than I expected. You know, somebody wrote me something which I would like to share. I have to paraphrase it a little because that silly person is somehow afraid of some people. Impossible to believe. We are dealing here with accomplished yogi(ni)s, who would not hurt anybody either by thoughts or actions. The person wrote:
    “Roman, you are a man, therefore you know that any sex is not a man’s problem. It’s a woman’s problem.”
    After I’ve read that I remembered how back in my country people would say (including my mother and, I have to admit, sometimes even myself): “She got raped? Well, she was asking for it. Just look at that short skirt. Look at those 4D cups sticking out. She looks like a whore and therefore, she is a whore.” I am definitely sure that at least the women with more developed upper bodies will fully understand what I mean.
    Regarding any sexual fantasies and any fantasies projection I would say just this:
    Let say that six women could all make this up in their dirty, sex deprived minds. Now the question is if all those divine experiences, miracles which only pure souls can see and all that wasn’t also just a fantasy. Fantasy of reality deprived mind. Just think about it.
  • Connex June 2011
    Posts: 49
    Reply to @Roman:

    I don’t mean to say they asked consciously or subconsciously for violence.

    I believe in mercy and compassion. It truly deserves compassion if somebody gets hurt, even one can only receive what’s written in the book of karma.

    I am not a woman hater. Women are rather connected to love and devotion, but since relationships missing appropriate quality, some just follow the “power-over” strategy by displaying their female attraction. Gaining self-esteem by wielding power over others is the world’s famous game.

    re: < Let say that six women could all make this up in their dirty, sex deprived minds. Now the question is if all those divine experiences, miracles which only pure souls can see and all that wasn’t also just a fantasy. Fantasy of reality deprived mind. Just think about it. >

    I don't have to think about that too long. Sw. never abused anybody. So what ever happend about the reported situations must have be something else.

    One can easily force different analysis/interpretation of one situation just by the power of definition (language). The language one choses depends on ones state of mind, fear, experience, fantasy, hope, etc. If one choses a tendentious term to discribe a situation, it creates a meaning according to what one intend to provoke in others.
  • VeritasVeritas June 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @Connex:
    Connex:
    @Ex-Swami Rameshwaranand: yes, going in peace to your final sleep is what you do imagine now. But who knows … Anyhow, I m pretty sure you’ll get rewarded in your next life becoming a woman ^^


    Ok, so you are not one of the hardcore-fundamentalists, who supposes, that anyone who is opposing the Guru will be reborn as worm. Good.

    Connex:
    There you’ll get plenty of opportunities to study the complex female psyche, with its immense imaginative talent and sexual manipulation and finally continue to figure out the real context of this “sex scandal”. Again, your life will become a success.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that you will be reborn in glorious U.S.A.


    What are you trying to say? Sarcasticly branding him as failure? Failure on what measures? Being wealthy like big orange? Or having integrety and spine?
    You also implement the thought, that big orange fell victim to the sexual fantasies of the women.
    Well, I agree, I am sure that some of his female followers would have had the thought of having sex with him. But having a thought and actually really wanting to, are two complete different things. My question to you: Did you have sex with him?

    Connex:
    The master, whom you accuse has poured out so much love and support to all – and still does! Even you yourself do not know where you would stand if he had not helped you.


    Ah here we go. Master is all good and you are NOTHING without him, you owe him. Therefore you have no right to critizise any of his questionable deeds. Actually it was
    exactly this kind of mindset that has lead to his abusive behaviour, nobody there to tell him off, when he crossed the lines, that he should not have crossed. You know, especially persons in such positions of power do need critical voices to warn him and keep him from temptation. But such mindset makes that impossible.

    Connex:
    Memories of him are still adding a form of power to your life. However, the straw is kindled in two ways, when the fire falls onto the straw, or if the straw falls into the fire. You still call his name and so you get his “form” …


    It's all a matter of point of view. Again we have the indoctrination, all the good in your life came from him, you are lost without him, bla bla bla...
    Look behind it. What is it really about. It is to push you down to make him rise. To get control by implementing fear. Classic again.

    Connex:
    But no one was betrayed by him! You are on the wrong track …


    Yes, if you think Advaita, you are right. But Advaita can be a trap and it is very dangerous if not completely understood. Especially when you use it to justify crime.

    Connex:
    I personally know four of the so-called “victims” and some of their "civil lawyers" now, and had the opportunity to study already years ago their quirky personalities that were full of bizarre ideas, anger, self-absorbed emotions and disguised erotic fantasies. I've always kept distance from them after I knew them more closely.


    How easy can you make it for yourself? Rejection, blame and denial are just here to save your neat orange world. There is no room for compassion and empathy. Keeping your neat orange world tidy is the most important thing. These evil women should just go to hell.
    Nice Yogi you are. Yogi of bigotry and hypocrisy.

    Connex:
    But it’s your business. Go on with your hunting and things …. Otherwise you may risk to feel a lack of meaning in life (I know several people who feel alive only in a resistance-based fight. So, why not?). So I hope for you that it's all worth at the end …
    Put him into jail or elsewhere, he will continue as long as he lives to enlighten all those around him who are ready to understand ….


    ...with his PRASHAD.

    Connex:
    I would like to share many uplifting stories and miracles with you, but you are not open anymore.


    Go on, we listen. But don't be upset, if you won't get us back in orangeworld with blunt propaganda and fairytales.

    Connex:
    One must have a pure heart to understand “the reasons behind”. Of course, not that sort of ‘pure heart’ that results from the subjectively perceived righteousness after a more or less successful battle or Robin Hood mission.


    We do not care about your grid of how a good person has to be. We are free of that. We think for ourselves, we act and we are ready to take the consequences for our actions, not waiting for a messiah to grant us liberation and relievement of our karmas.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    ola la la
    HARI OM! Great knower of the "complex female psyche, with its immense imaginative talent and sexual manipulation” THANK YOU SO MUCH IN THE NAME OF ALL OF US! Such big understanding, love, knowledge and respect is pouring from your message directly to my vag...na.
    And thank you for explaining to me the reason why I couldn't see any uplifting story and any miracle in 15 years of my practising of yoga at the holly feet of swAmi.
    MY HEART IS NOT PURE ENOUGH!!!!!
    Not pure but intelligent and compassionate enough to see that my little sisters are telling the truth.
    I also feel very sorry for you because from my personal experience I know that more people are disappointed from their personal life more are they keen to find a refuge in the highly idealistic fantasies you are describing. I'm very sorry for all the bad things that happened to you but believe me running away from them in your Big Orange fantasy world will not help to solve them. It's terrible but we have to face the reality and be the change we want to see. I want a world free of sexual abuse.
  • Reply to @pavitra: pavitra, sometimes the best way to say the truth is to put it bluntly. great sarcasm, hilarious.
  • joyriver June 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @pavitra: I am proud of having such a brave and bold big sister! Go, Pavitra! :)
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @John_Sceptic:
    John, we had this discussion with you many times. You would like for any cost put the names of all the women public to make the accusations more credible. I tell you, it wouldnt help. And it is a legal advise too: it is not necessary from the legal point of view that they come out, it is not necessary from the persuading point of view, neithter from credibility point of view, and the most important reason, it IS SAFER for their everyday life not to do it.

    Maybe you are single, maybe you dont have parents, friends, neighbours THAT YOU DONT WANT TO SHARE PUBLICLY YOUR SEXUAL PAST with, such living and work environment that such news would discredit and demage your present EXISTENCIAL SITUATION, maybe you dont have children in young puberty THAT ARE VERY SENSITIVE FOR THE SEXUAL LIFE OF THEIR PARENTS. Maybe your partner wouldn't be CAPABLE TO UNDERSTAND and your present realtionship would be endangered. From your mouth comes out total ignorance and knowlege of common world and common life.

    There are 3 women that have not such conditions that they frankly put out their history with SwAmi, and there are more that have such present life conditions THAT DONT WANT OTHERS TO KNOW THEIR HISTORY. Even the law PROTECTS THE TESTIOMNIES AND THEIR RIGHT NOT TO REVEAL THEIR IDENTITY IN PUBLIC.

    So please STOP IT, stop commanding what one must do. People they have right to have and know their reasons.

  • PallasAthene May 2011
    Posts: 246
    Come down brothers and sisters. That's the resonance of the call. :)

    It's ok.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    I know PallasAthene but you have to give them something and it's so funny when you can hear the eco of the deep voice from behind. And you have to admit that this new theory of the sexually abused swAmi is the best ever: mixed with the super powers deepened in a heavy sugared syrup to cover the bitter taste of poisonous threats ...
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    pavitra you are such loving sweet person, that I never want to meet one like you in my life
    somebody ask me about where I see threatening and hate...that person... just read any of pavitra post, she is vulgar (frequently mentioning her genital organs), offending, full of hate…she is capable of many things just to see XXXXX and our organization down, literary everything, that is why i would not like you to know who I am.
    which teory about abused xxxx??? I cannot find that
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @member: Dear member, such negative emotions naturally arise when one deeply trusted someone and suddenly he finds out that the trusted person was just terribly cheating him. Unlike you, pavitra KNOWS what swAmi did to her very dear sister and if you were at her position you wouldn't definitely love the swAmi too. Please, try to understand the roots of things, don't stay on the surface.
  • karavan June 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @member:
    Ey dear Member, I would say, Pavitra is being very polite here knowing and reporting here about abuse of her little sister by this man.

    Put yourself into her skin and then count the names that appear in your head.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    My dear friends, this is my point of view: you are attacking (in my opinion totally without reason) what is most secret and most precious to me in this whole world. And it is hurting me; I see it as total injustice to one saint. The pain and feelings are ( I will not say bigger because Guru is like father, mother and sister to bhakta) but the same (or similar) like her because of her sister. I just don’t want to transfer my pain in to anger, rage and revenge. I believe that truth will win (or we will stay both side with our own picture of truth) and there is no need to become rage monsters in process.
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    Reply to @member: One should find something real or someone you know to be the most precious. Not someone you don't know. For instance family members, partner even pet but not some complete stranger coming from extremely different culture and background.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @Ivan:
    this is nonsense, what about people who are married to people from different culture or background, adopting children or whatever....this is nonsence, to tell people who or what should be the most precious in their life depending on culture differences or background
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @Ivan:
    it is my choice, is my pain, or I have no wright to have same emotions like pavitra because my choice is wrong in your opinion?
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @member: Pavitra sometimes says things in a rude way, but in the same post you can see she shows compassion with Connex. Her words come straight from the heart, she puts things sometimes in a rude or emotional way, but it's all for defending her friend. I prefer such a person a hundred times over someone who is nice at the outside, but rotten on the inside (I'm not saying you are such a person). Of course you are allowed to have the same emotions as her.
  • VeritasVeritas June 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @member:
    Thank you for your open and sensitive words. I can understand you point of view very well and your attempt not to fall in anger shall be honoured. May I ask you one thing, please. Just allow the idea, that all that is said about the abuse, is in fact true. Then read again. This will allow you to understand. I am not asking you to believe, just pretend for a moment.
    Thank you.
  • joyriver June 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @member: You should be the most sacred and the most precious thing in the world to yourself. :)
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @member: Dear member, you are devoted to a person who doesn't deserve it and who's not worth it. If you wanna make spiritual progress, go and find a real guru. The problem is your picture of truth is now distorted. You don't know what real saint is, you don't know what real Guru is. You're living in illusion of saintliness made by a person who actually is not a saint but sweetly charming chatterbox. We're just telling you the truth. In your eyes it's attacking without a reason, but be sure we all are former members of YiDL. We we're thinking like you several years ago. And now we have substantial reasons for telling you these things. But because you believe in him so much and blindly, it's hurting you. Nobody wants to hurt you. We wanna help you to understand the situation. Try to realize it's not healthy to be so attached to one person however saintly he can appear to you. Dear member, real saints doesn't play with girls behind the curtain. We know that he did it. But we understand that it appears to you simply totally inconceivable. Several years ago it would appear impossible to us too. We also were in that illusion called YiDL. But we already woke up. Our view luckily changed. Please, try to understand the reasons. Read the forum and find the substantial points. There are several women who can tell you the sad truth about that orange father, mother and sister in one..
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji June 2011
    Posts: 255
    pavitra is so SO cool - the problem is that 'caring' and 'kind' members simply don't get it, don't want to get it at all- watching the plate from the side it appears just as a line, you have to see it from the front side too, to see it is actually a round, wide plate.
    Pavitra is not using rude or ugly expressions to express rudeness , just to point out the pure sarcasm and irony - she is expressive , her posts are vivid, short and go right to the core of the problem.
    Forgive me 'member' but how self-proud human has to be to say:" oh look I am so hurt too that you throw a mud at my teacher but I am still being so kind because i am so spiritual" - to tell this to a person who knows the truth that your 'guru' is in fact a manipulator and cheater of the worse kind ? Don't you see that your position is simply not of the one who should feel pain and anger ?!

    connex has written so unintelligent and false post that I almost could not believe that people can go so far with stupidity and lies. I think it is just post "by order", or maybe the orangebowl himself :D ?
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    Everyone has his right to be devoted to anyone he chooses. But one should choose wisely and be careful if not for himself but for the other people who may be potentially hurt. Everyone propagating swAmi and YIDL should be aware of this. There is much more risk in staying than in leaving- every single person staying with swAmi is giving him a small share of legitimation. And when you leave what do you expect: Mahaprabhuji's revengeful rage? ;-) postponed samadhi? makes sense, yep.
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Well spoken by Ivan. People who choose to stay in YiDL should think to themselves, if the accusations are true, am I not enabling swAmi to act out his destructive behaviour? He can't do all this without his followers with their blind faith and obedience.

    If we presume Mahaprabhuji was really a saint (as opposed to swAmi and his uncle), he would turn in his grave knowing what is done by swAmi in his name.
  • Durchanand June 2011
    Posts: 74
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    maybe mahaprabhuji needs not even to have been a saint but he most probably was a yogi aspirant or teacher on the way giving his best as we all did and do and he might have achieved quite something whatever it was - but definitely he has already turned 108 times per year in his grave minimum. be sure about that. at least when we suppose that he had thrown the old orangebowl out of his ashram years before his death.
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    He was a saint of his kind, but nothing so special - India is full of such saints. In the first place he was not a God incarnation..
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @SunYaC: definitely...
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    before leaving ....
    to falseswamiji:
    you said:"Forgive me 'member' but how self-proud human has to be to say:" oh look I am so hurt too that you throw a mud at my teacher but I am still being so kind because i am so spiritual" - to tell this to a person who knows the truth that your 'guru' is in fact a manipulator and cheater of the worse kind ? Don't you see that your position is simply not of the one who should feel pain and anger ?!"
    My position is simply not of the one who should feel pain"- ??? o my Good...I didn't say I am so spiritual , I am just a normal, decent human beeing, normal decent people are not jumping on each other neck if they are s hurt or angry, that is what I said. That is why we are humans not anymals.

    Ivan: I will take the risk and stay with xxx because I know and believe that he didn't do anything to those girls. I am not staying because of fear. If I leave I don't expect nothing, no revenge of Mahaprabhuji, saints don't revenge to people.

    Sunyac:You think that he is false, I think he is real Guru. I respect your opinion and not traying to "bring you back to the path" but you are not respecting my opinion and try to convince me to your opinion. That is diference, cant you see? I am not better human because of that, or more spiritual, just this is difference betwn us. And I read the forum. And those women (for me) are not saying the sad truth about xxxx, sorry.

    You are calling Him names, that's fine with me, but, did you notice, I didn't call any name those girls and believe me, I could , because I don't like many things about this stories and have my strong opinion about some of them like you have opinion about xxxx. Almost same opinion.
    good luck to all
    member
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @member: I am pretty sure that YIDL is a cult and therefore I don't blame SunYaC, Ivan and others for trying to get people like you out of it. There's only a small chance on success, but one should try to nonetheless. But whatever we say, it probably won't help with you, you are just to eager to keep believing. We can't stop you from that. It's you responsibility in the end.
  • SunYaC June 2011
    Posts: 41
    Reply to @member: Dear member, the difference between us is I know something very substantial about the swAmi what you don't know. It's not a matter of mere opinions. It's about knowledge of the facts. And because these facts very radically change his position from guru to cheater, it's obvious that each and everyone of his followers should at least get the chance to learn these facts and then decide how to act thereafter. We don't try to convince you. We just offer you the truth. It's our duty. And you take it or not. As you like, it's your choice :)

    Btw I'm still "on the path" :) To continue with spiritual life after all those years in YiDL didn't mean to stay in YiDL.. At one point it happened to be exactly the opposite. "To stay on the path" meant to leave YiDL.
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