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When teacher turns into cheater
  • karavan May 2011
    Posts: 135
    :) :) :) yes it was about not being f...d thanks to Miloshevic :) :) I reall miss Cici's speaches. He was the best ever speaker at YIDL
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] July 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @karavan:
    you have him again, don't you recognize his way of talking?
  • karavan July 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @storymaker:
    whom do you mean?
  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Ahem... speaking of war criminals. After the 9/11, anytime I would watch on CNN a footage of Osama bin Laden, seated on his throne in his flowing robe, and giving a lecture; all the benign smiles, benevolent nods, delicate hand gestures, gentle tone of his voice, all of it was eerily familiar... Definitely, there seems to be a certain common style these "charismatic" figures try to project. Has anyone else noticed that?
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    For me a "charismatic" person is just a skilful communicator, that using the right techniques, words, look, smiles, is able to attract and keep people attention. It doesn't matter if they are preaching bad or good, the communication "tricks" are always the same.
  • speakup May 2011
    Posts: 57
    Yes Tony that was scary to watch. I guess these charlatans and despots quickly learn that they catch more flies with honey than vinegar. It is only after the flies get caught in the trap that the true colours are revealed!
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Certain body language may also be cultural. I've noticed during my travels in the world that the body language differs from culture to culture. But I did have some deja vu moments watching those pictures. As usual, it may be some mixture of everything.
  • Roman July 2011
    Posts: 347
    @storymaker:

    you have him again, don't you recognize his way of talking?

    Well, you are wrong about this one, same as with many other things you’ve said. I won’t tell you who it is but it is not definitely Cici. Can you accept that you were actually and openly and publicly wrong in your assumptions on this one? And then if yes, how about any (or most) of your other assumptions? You see, my friend, if I say something, I make sure that I know what I am talking about. I don’t care what anybody else may think of it. I am a grandpa too, too old to try to always look pretty. I don’t assume. I never did. Therefore I would advise you to read Cici’s statement and my statement on the abused site (it is also at the heading of this forum). If you don’t see quite difference in opinions in those two statements, you cannot be a credible knower of anything. I’ve always liked Cici, we lived many times in India in the same room and our relationship was always of mutual respect and friendship (to the degree two swamis can be real friends). Our respect had arisen from being honest to each other and discussing many times topics which we “shouldn’t have been discussing” in YES SIR BOOT CAMP, having many times contrary opinions about things without having it affecting our friendship. He is and always has been his own person and I am and always have been my own person. I did not agree with certain things about him and I am sure he did not agree with certain things about me either. I had left, he stayed. I had much closer friends in YIDL whom I would miss much more than him. It has been over ten years and of course, I am ex-swami and he is ex swami now too. That’s all you can say about my connection with him. People are talking about rudeness and improper words on this forum. I find it really rude being called by you “a new believer of Cici”, “part of his orchestra” and “egotistic and naïve”. This is sharing of some of my opinions with you in a non-rude manner. Before you put words in your mouth make sure that you really know what you are talking about.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] July 2011
    Posts: 0
    What are you talking about? I didn't say that you are Chitci. Not even close. I know that you are not, your still is different, and you would know much better situation in Novi Sad. Don't accuse me with something I didn't say.
    Second, read more carefully, I didn't say HIS orchestra, more opposite, I said that he is not so important and that he is only one trumpet in that orchestra. Nobody’s orchestra.
    You can accuse me of what ever you like, but those two things are just stupid. And I am also talking about only what I really know, believe me.
  • Do you need someone to clear that up? I shall volunteer:-)
    It seems storymaker hinted in one posting that NoviSadCalling may be identical with Cici. Roman refuted that. Everyone should know, the administrator of the forum (=Roman) knows who registered with what email address. So Roman is in a position to say with authority what alias belongs to which email address. Provided NoviSadCalling has registered with a recognizable address, which can be related to a person, Roman can with certainty say that NovisadCalling is in fact not Cici.
  • Roman July 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @Ushmeypuri:
    Thank you Ushmeypuri for clearing this thing up while I was sleeping :)
  • Roman July 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @storymaker:
    Oh really? No, I don't believe you. Do you know me? Obviously not or not enough. So next time when you use my name in relation to something, make sure that you have it fact checked through and through. Your orchestra parable can be read in different ways but ok. I’ll take that one back because it is insignificant. You have insulted me enough on the other points. I just thought that you should know. Your absolutely wrong understanding of my follow up on your NoviSadCalling being Cici jab few posts up http://www.sexabuseyidl.net/discussion/comment/2733#Comment_2733 shows me one thing: that you are looking for what you want to find, not for what is really there. Have a nice day.
  • illusion July 2011
    Posts: 5
    Where is Nirwanpuri's letter to Cici published originally? I don't see it in this forum. I would like to reply to him if the letter is published somewhere. Thanks!
  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    Here you are, illusion:

    "Nirwanpuri, Vancouver, March 18, 2011
    Hari Om, here is a translation in English of my answer to Slobodan Milicevic. As a former member of Novi Sad ashram I felt obliged to react. I would appreciate if you read this.
    --------------------------------

    Slobodan, I was very surprised to receive a letter from you, for the first time in 25 years that I've known you. I am shocked by this flood of toxic lies and manipulations that come from you. And I am very hurt by what you did to me, my immediate family and my yoga family to which I belong for almost 25 years. In a series of shocking things that I hear about you one stands out - your recent admiration for the character and life work of Slobodan Milosevic, a war criminal, whose rule we jointly suffered during the 90-ies. In the same category belongs your threat with a neo-fascist organization "Obraz" directed to XXXXX's disciples in Novi Sad. These notorious thugs are defaming our Orthodox Christian Church by hiding behind it while using baseball bats as the only means of argument. If I learned anything during my life, including Milosevic's rule marked by the war and terror in the former Yugoslavia, and including the last 8 years in my new Canadian home, it's that evil, terror and violence against us or against other innocent people should not be observed calmly, but that we should use every force to resist them. So I decided to break my silence and stand up to you. I will try to follow Gandhiji's advice, which XXXXX so often mentioned, and not attack you personally but your actions. With your activities in recent months you managed to completely shred into pieces my dear Novi Sad yoga family. You deprived me of wonderful memories and connections with people with whom I practically grew up, became family and friend... A family portrait with one hundred and something people, which I proudly held in my heart all these years, you've thrown into the fire with your threats, toxic lies and manipulations. A painful vision still plagues me - many dear friends disappearing from my life in a hurricane. Just as you used to be an excellent student of XXXXX, now you've proven yourself to be a committed student of Slobodan Milosevic, a criminal who used fear-mongering to impose terror against innocent people and incite them to engage in war and violence. And all under the pretext of his "concern for the people". I remember vividly how in Kosovo in 1989 he pretended to get up in the protection of the oppressed and encouraged them to revolt. His cunning and manipulation resulted in a bloody conflict in which thousands lost their lives. The fact that he ended up in the prison for war criminals offers no satisfaction to his victims. Disguised behind your supposed care for XXXXX's students is the stink of your hate, ambition and unscrupulousness. Is it the end of it or do we still have to suffer to satisfy you? I do not know whether to even start to analyze your list of supposed crimes of my Guru. In your enthusiasm you got carried so far that I ended reading it in an uproarious laugher. Is there even one crime in this world for which you didn't accuse XXXXX? He would need a whole new life and hundreds of accessory to commit all this. And yet at the same time without anyone around him noticing that. I'll of course avoid the mistake that many have made - to keep some
    pieces of your list in which they think they could believe. I reject your list as a whole. I know that you do not expect anyone to believe in all this. For you it's enough if only one thing from that list enters their mind - it would be enough to destroy the trust that is essential for the spiritual development of disciples. I admired your lucidity always. Now, mixed with the poison of lies, it seems very powerful and a source which is difficult to defend against. I suffer actual injury from you, while you accuse XXXXX for an amazing set of mischiefs which no one in our yoga family has even seen with their own eyes, let alone, god forbid, suffered. Slobodan Milosevic has made the most damage to his own people. The stigma of his crime we, his compatriots, carry forever and we are forced to always prove our own innocence and humanity. So are the victims of your hate mostly those closest to you - the video team and Novi Sad ashram. I'm now also marked, as a former member of the ashram, as the manipulator, a man without pity and with a short memory. But let it be, this will force me to serve with even more devotion, to be a better man and to try to change this prejudice about us through my selfless work. In a way I am grateful for this because I'll become a better disciple of XXXXX. Would the world ever hear of Hanuman's devotion was it not for Ravana? As many of us stood up against Milosevic, so do not doubt that in Serbia there are still brave and conscientious disciples who will oppose your terror.

    Nirwanpuri XXXXX Vancouver 223 W Broadway 604-646-0134 www.vanyoga.com"
  • illusion July 2011
    Posts: 5
    Reply to @truthseeker: Sorry, I meant the original one. Did Nirwanpuri publish it on this forum, or did you get it from some other source? In other words, I was hoping Nirwanpuri and others from Vancouver may be reading the forum and wanted to reply to them. Thanks.
  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @illusion: I got it by e-mail from the Vienna department.
  • July 2011
    Posts: 0
    (sorry, had to be deleted by editor due to spamming)
  • truthseeker September 2011
    Posts: 541
    For the ones interested in other hindu cults there is a forum for ex-Amma members: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/examma/

    Amma is also know as 'the hugging saint'. To be able to read the posts you have to join the group. It's the only website where one is still able to criticize her, the other ones are all closed down under pressure of the Amma cult group. I have read many things that are eerily similar to YiDL. It's tempting to quote some lines, but the Yahoo group doesn't allow that, so I won't.
  • batawebatawe September 2011
    Posts: 409
    Indian invasion: healing of trauma, let's go back to the primordial oneness, let's make the fusion, escape the existential trauma and enjoy the myth of all powerful and limitless "I" which we all want to achieve, the oceanic feeling, dissolving into the undifferentiated plasma of bliss...but before you do it, please make some instalment on your altar with almost half-form/less doll and it will catapult you into the unfathomable regions of divine transcendental consciousness, the real sat-chit-anand--, thus becoming One with the universal and primordial narcissism of enlightened "I", with no constraints, no definition and no limit; the state before the emergence of the particular "I", state of the divine infant, before it grew up and entered the world of differentiated "I", the learning process, the world of other subjects, where the demarcation between the outer world and the inner became the source of tension, the only solution being the escape by dissolving into the alleged primordial substance where everything is the same, greek "hen kai pan", pure and unalloyed bliss, formless and empty of meaning, pure divine death of the pathological subject or "I", finding again its divine origin, positive and full of empty substance - of pure Nothingness; what a beautiful story to sell and retroactively give the meaning to the hopes of fragmented, broken and unhealed "I"---meditate on the fetish and transcend, what a beautiful doll it is...;)
    O dear americans, fu--ked by the doll...when circus comes to town and messes with the brain...
  • truthseeker September 2011
    Posts: 541
    As we can see in the film, Amma is very special. You can get a free hug from her.
    Yes, that's right, free, for nothing. Where can you get a free hug these days!
    But when Amma invites you to stay at her ashram in India and you go it will cost you: you will pay around $16,000 (!) per adult and a bit less for the children, just for the right to stay.
    Supposedly they use this money to help the poor, but the schools and hospitals turn out to be available only for those who can afford the high cost service.
    It's a real good business, this Amma-business.
  • batawebatawe September 2011
    Posts: 409
    empty hope and nice soothing fantasmatical belief while doing nothing, just waiting and falling for the emotion and vague 'concept' of love and bliss; mind that projects the meaning onto the 'embodiment' of Truth in certain Person, blessing you and 'taking care of you' all the time; what exactly will the hugs solve?

    They can only function as the all-embracing 'motherly love', which the somehow universally deprived subjects with their unfulfilled desire (the prerequisite of "the culture as such", where the direct 'object' of enjoyment is always displaced, postponed, promised, substantiated/sublimated ), somehow find in the Amma-like figure, a substitute of the child-longing for the Mother's breast (just one of the elements/objects that was fuel for the desire, to formulate itself on the basis of organic function; what is added to the normal and organic feeding of the child through the breast, is the glued "oral drive", that doesn't crave only for milk, but the attention and satisfaction that arises along with it, the breast itself as the object of that satisfaction, oral drive that 'feasts' and becomes like the parasite, satisfying itself/leaning on the natural feeding function), processing the Oedipal phase and subsequent cultural onsets through the newly discovered 'object' that promises them, that their wounds will be healed, all accepting Mother who gives love to all and hugs all, accepts all, just squeezing you near her face and body, feeling the warmth, the acceptance, long lost love finally found (for a short time;

    then you buy the doll and install it on altar); all your problems are being solved by the hug, the all-embracing divine and beneficient God sent his/her/its saints to soothe the pain of his/hers/its 'creatures'; all this worldly action and existence with all the multiplexity of life and manifold aspects of human, social existence and the way the people structured their lives within the Symbolic space, where the religion, science, art and all other manifestations of human spirit find their expression, here, we have the embodiment of Love, pure feeling, pure emotion, pure giving, pure xy etc..., and it sacrifices itself;

    where all the meaning is lost and words fail, we have emotion, we have love, one hug is worth ten tons of speculative thought that can satisfy only 1 or 2 but not many, like pure Love etc...nice, the only thing is that too much emotion also drains your energy, and you can't beat the way of the heart and its own 'reasoning'; it jumps out of the window without knowing why and what is on the ground, maybe a cushion maybe a concrete, who knows...as long as we love and feel love and if god is love than god is with us, at least this deduction is used by the people of the heart: god is love , love is god and that's it...

    neither we know anything about love nor god,,love is so wide and general concept, but still, in its own generality and abstractness it 'defines' that which is god; but as I wrote somewhere, god is too localized, the god of abraham, of isaac, the protestant god etc...the Absolute is the final and 'absolute' term that precisely means nothing but at the same time means everything, it is not defined and precisely because it is not defined and functions as empty word it becomes the speculative reality of thought, the mind which seizes itself in its abstract term and at the same time already finds its own freedom in its own faculty of thought, the freedom which the heart recognizes in the Other, in the desire of the Other, becoming its own fetish to worship, symbolizing its promise of freedom, acceptance of the glorious god who penetrates with its force through divinely chosen people, inseminating us with the seed of Love...

    Love is an idea, aesthetical and emotional filter but not yet capable of self-reflection, its own negation seen as the element of its own force, the Other being nothing else than the movement of its own notion, of self-possession through its own conceptual thought, synthesizing the opposites into the dialectical play or movement of thought and bridging the opposite in itself through the work of spirit which lies not in some transcendent sphere (beyond some phenomenal 'limit') but it must already be included in the immanent process of phenomenality itself; phenomenality itself, the 'external' reality which becomes already the internal reality by the process of thought-'textualization', the outer already becoming the inner and inner already being the outer; the surface which unnoticeably permutates itself into its own 'opposite'...

    in this sense the truth itself reveals itself already in the process of Life, it does not need the grand representatives of static divine concepts of Love, Beauty and Truth (waiting for us somewhere behind the scene as permanent 'objects' and fullness of 'meaning'), later functioning as fetishes to adore and worship, dividing the subject and object, making the division and playing the game of seeking, searching for the lost 'object', believing, postponing indefinitely the promise and pulling the desire by its tongue, while still not knowing who pulls the tongue and where it will lead you; at the end you get just dry tongue with zero water on it, dying with thirst in the phantasmagorical desert where water appears on the horizon which endlessly evades your vision...

    watch the courtney on 1:46:

    "Silence is Bliss!" my friends; just don't forget it's a sentence organizing the desire of Courtney around its central 'object' of Love, i.e. Amma;)
  • someonefromhungary September 2011
    Posts: 334
    "Hague court urged to investigate Pope over sex abuse"
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-church-icc-idUSTRE78C5EQ20110913

  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] September 2011
    Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] September 2011
    Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • proofs September 2011
    Posts: 4
    swAmi's real personality:
  • someonefromhungary September 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @proofs: :( :( :( :( :(
    thanx for posting it
  • batawebatawe September 2011
    Posts: 409
    WTF????????????????????????????????
  • mangotree September 2011
    Posts: 118
    and not one member of the crowd is surprised, concerned or responsive.
    Why - because this is NORMAL for yidl, it is spiritual training.

    OR it is an act of violence - depending on how you see the world.
  • NoviSadCalling September 2011
    Posts: 175
    Reply to @mangotree:

    Of course, all this is just the way "guru" "teaches" his disciples, it has nothing to do with violence. He is all ahimsha, so it is not possible that he is violent one. There has to be some problem with synapses in our brains ...
  • batawebatawe September 2011
    Posts: 409
    this is nothing compared to the hard training of zen monks or some other hardcore masters where sticks and buckets rain on the disciple;)))
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Devotees' testimonies:

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Devotee #3

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Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz

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Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de

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