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Re-evaluation of the situation or "where do I stand?"
  • batawebatawe July 2011
    Posts: 409
    from the above article:
    Amputate your desires, ambition, individuality.

    Monks and nuns are called renunciates, because they take vows of poverty, celibacy and obedience: I renounce the desire to own anything, I renounce sex, I renounce my ego and independence and vow to obey whoever my superior is. These vows can be very liberating to someone whose destiny is to be a monk or nun. The individual can even glow with an inner luminosity. But they also become radioactive in a way, and if you study with them you may get radiation poisoning, as if you got too many x-rays.

    Monks and nuns tend to see everyday life as a disease. They suggest you internalize toxic attitudes toward yourself as medicine. Slow down, kill out your passion, become submissive, cultivate disgust instead of attraction, and dissolve your identity. These are medicinal attitudes that monks and nuns cultivate in themselves. However, if you are not a monk, these attitudes are simply toxic, like taking antibiotics if you do not have an infection, or drinking radioactive iodine to kill your thyroid gland. If you do not have a disease, they just weaken you.

    Weakening of ambition and passion

    Weakening of healthy desire and consequent weakening of the ability to form close relationships and attachments.
    Weakening of the individual ego and will and of the ability to tolerate the uncertainty of following your individual path.

    Most long-term meditators have been damaged to some extent by these monastic attitudes, because they permeate the atmosphere of meditation. To a certain extent, this cancels out the benefits of meditation. Say a person has been meditating for 10 years. When they look back, they often see that for a year or two they were actually devolving, as they hacked away with their mental knifes at their "attachments," before realizing, "Hey, wait a minute, I am a householder, I work with attachments.

    Anything you do in meditation that interferes with the simple joys of living, or with the flow of desire into action, is going to have vast and far-reaching implications for your life. If you spend a year practicing detachment in meditation, it may take you five years to recover your sense of zest and spontaneity in life. You may find yourself feeling detached emotionally and get divorced as a consequence, and this may be good or bad, who knows? In general, if you practice meditation as a war on the self, you will tend toward becoming broke, lonely, and weak. This is actually good from the point of view of the cult-like meditation schools: it means you are ready to take vows as a monk or nun.


    This is a fantastic wealth of information, and the monks and nuns in the traditions are like walking museums. There is a dark side, though, because of this sheer brilliance of the ancient scholars and yogis. They make their way of life extremely appealing. Even the ancient, oppressive system of Masters and Slaves seem beautiful, necessary and inevitable. All of the meditative traditions over the millennia, until recently, lived in the open-air prison of the Feudal System, where people had very little choice in life. You couldn't move, change jobs, choose who to marry, or exercise much control over your life at all. Everything was karma, and everything that happened was karma. An attitude of total resignation and surrender was adaptive.

    When meditation is conducted in the spirit of the feudal system, it is about killing individuality, killing out the creative impulse, and creating a submissive, dependent, pliant individual who always obeys. This is very good for nuns and monks, to help them adapt to life in a nunnery or monastery. But if you do not live in a religous order, cultivating surrender and resignation is about as beneficial as cutting off your hands.


    This amputation can be a blessing for a soul who really is a monk or a nun, and needs to just go join an ashram. But if you are not a monk or nun, cutting yourself off from life is as depressing as cutting off your foot. It's a loss, and you will suffer grief over the loss.

    Above excerpt clearly shows how certain spiritual groups and all-knowing gurus or masters (whom even themselves probably do not always know/recognize what is good for a particular person, in general, or even regarding the choice of desired practice, which might work for some but not for all=the reason why certain masters had few disciples); which means that disciples comply and with-no-choice fall into the prescribed mould of practices, views and attitudes of the path, which might not necessarily be good for them etc.

    Anyway, the dangers of brainwashing, cult-attitudes and sampled world-views etc., which result in copy-paste spiritual parrots, is definitely not something spiritual at all - when spirituality becomes predictable, narrow, boring, anti-indivudual, collective-group-minded and fanatic; where is the difference with spirituality and religion? The moment you have the guru which you worship, you are in the game of 'religion'...FEAR IS POWER (for the masters of the universe), while the parrots sing: Love is all we need...
  • NoviSadCalling July 2011
    Posts: 175
    Reply to @batawe:

    Excellent text and your comment! Feudal system is the system cult leaders wish for themselves!
  • But then, for the whole of the society in question, or even humankind, it might have been beneficial to place explorers (=monks) into such positions, even when we, with our modern tastes, dislike the element of necessity involved, i.e. the need to make some use of a surplus population.
  • someonefromhungary July 2011
    Posts: 334
    if material and non-material are substantially different then what is the interface between them made of? material or non-material? or both? or neither?
  • PallasAthene July 2011
    Posts: 246
    material is a product of non material forces. without material non-material would not be apparent. in return non material can be reflected by material. me it is the same in a different aggregate state.

    to heal someone is to use this knowledge. to get non material with material in tune or in balance.
  • Thank_You July 2011
    Posts: 32
    I -am - F-r-e-e-e-e-e-e
    I -am - F-r-e-e-e-e-e-e
    I -am - F-r-e-e-e-e-e-e
    I -am - F-r-e-e-e-e-e-e
    I -am - F-r-e-e-e-e-e-e
    I was just have having a quiet moment singing to myself .
  • someonefromhungary July 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @Thank_You: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
  • Durchanand August 2011
    Posts: 74
    Reply to @Thank_You:

    I am so very happy for and with you!!! Renounce slavery and enjoy said Gandhi, didn´t he?
  • grateful August 2011
    Posts: 6
    This is shared in the same light as Thank you.

    Thank you, Roman so much for starting and running this forum. And thank you also to those who participate. It really is and has been so valuable.

    And my sincerest and deepest thanks to the courageous and inspiring women who have told their stories and the truth. You have made such a difference to my life and my healing. I really am so grateful.
    I just wanted to let you know that you are and have made a difference.

    I hope and wish you healing, support and continued strength.
  • Roman August 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @grateful:
    You are welcome and thank you for joining this forum and your very nice words.
  • PallasAthene August 2011
    Posts: 246
    Reply to @grateful: Thanks :)
  • someonefromhungary August 2011
    Posts: 334
    "Bokonon's First Book


    Verse 1: All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies.

    Verses 2-4: In the beginning, God created the earth, and he looked upon it in His cosmic loneliness.

    And God said, "Let Us make living creatures out of mud, so the mud can see what We have done." And God created every living creature that now moveth, and one was man. Mud as man alone could speak. God leaned close as mud as man sat up, looked around, and spoke. Man blinked. "What is the purpose of all this?" he asked politely.

    "Everything must have a purpose?" asked God.

    "Certainly," said man.

    "Then I leave it to you to think of one for all this," said God.

    And He went away.


    Bokonon's Fourteenth Book:

    Title: What Can a Thoughtful Man Hope for Mankind on Earth, Given the Experience of the Past Million Years?

    Only verse: Nothing."

  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] September 2011
    Posts: 0
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  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] September 2011
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