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Follow the money.
  • VeritasVeritas June 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @Ivan:
    Just sounds like a huge money-laundry-machine. But I might be wrong.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @Ivan: Maybe the problem is, that educated peaple like doctors dont want work in monks ashram. Next problem is, that nobody knows Jadan ashram. When you will ask taxidrivers in jaipur....their replay is-what is it Jadan ashram...in our (or yidl) universe Jadan means lot, but for people in neighbourhood.....for educated doctors....
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @Ivan:
    O my God, Ivan , you heard this, you heard that, you know all the rumors... and you always sound so bitter...man, go on, go further, live your live if you don't like Guru, yidl or spirituality in all, OK with universe, believe me.
    ..."produce more banana clad confuzees." so nice, so nice written…yes, maybe we are banana clad confuzees, but at least we are mostly happy and not so bitter as you or any other many color clad confuzees. Same, same my friend, no any significant different between us, you are just imagine that you are cleverer and you had unriddle this riddle of human life. Only for me is soooo not important which clot color you have on you and I don’t think that I know the meaning of life and everybody else are just confused.OMG
  • PallasAthene June 2011
    Posts: 246
    Reply to @member:
    Ivan says: "If the thing will be pushed further maybe they will put some more effort in the hospital project and make it work."

    That was the optimistic part of his posting. His evaluation of the settings are quite good, because India and their society is changing. They increasingly refuse to work for pittance as the media and internet present them an economic success story, whereof they want to be a part of it. Ask anybody what they have had to pay a craftman in the beginning of building up the om ashram and now.

    By the way Y... was always an ocean of rumors.

    And you are right, there is no difference between us facing mirrors.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @member: try to speak about spoken problems, not just speak that this man or this girl are ill, problematic and so on-maybe you have problem with argumentation, therefore you attact others. And i must admit, you were attacted too, but i thing you are clever enough to use proper arguments and work with logical thinkink.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @mangal:
    I can only react on "rumors" like I did, sorry. Don't you think that I heard thousand of "rumors" about those girls? About them, their ex friends, husbands, their life before all this, their relationships with Chitchi...Yes, I did, and believe me some of them are so possible and resonable. Do I use it here as argument? No. Because, rumors are not arguments. I am trying to stay with real serious argument in my judgements. If you want me to base my argumentation on rumors, I wont do that, because I don't hate nobody enough to bring my self to "rumors" level. Is this logical enough, or sect free thinking?
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @mangal:
    It’s kinda funny that nobody has really asked that question before, don’t you think?
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @Roman: yes, unfortunately i used to use hermeneutics of trust, and then everything was good, for some higher sense, which cannot be explaned for human beeing...
  • elisabeth June 2011
    Posts: 112
    Reply to Roman: Somebody has asked that question before: little me. I've been called stupid by the Abuse Webmaster, and other names as well, but the following is my forum post here in Australia, addressed to a lady from Australia (YIDL teacher) who has now resigned. I have corresponded with her this year, and find it quite ironic that she told me to see a psychiatrist back in 2009, but now SHE believes the sex allegations, and I don't. WOW!!

    The following is only part of my on-line forum discussion with her back in 2009, before they managed to get it removed from the Internet. I then created a website myself on google sites. (falseguru). Maybe one day I will put the original website back. For now: I will wait.

    Gumtree post, Australia, December 2009 (I published it on my false guru website):
    Elisabeth:
    My reply:thank you Irving22, for your great post. And to you (devotee, I don't want to use her name here, I think she was the one who complained about my post to gumtree in the first place), nothing I have said is untrue. But you, like the rest of them come rushing along to protect XXXXX from criticism. He says Yoga is good for your health, and you shouldn't eat much, but he's' got diabetes, is obese and I've never seen him do any serious Yoga postures at all. Yet his disciples have told me before that because of the advanced breathing techniques he does, he's developed a big stomach. What a load of rubbish that is. And another one, even better, is when they say he can't refuse the food people offer him, because it might upset them, especially in India, where he has God-like status. He makes promises that never come true, and he is a master manipulator. And people who really get ---- in work for him full-time as volunteers, and send money to him for his various ambitious projects. That's what you do, isn't it? Don't your run the yoga centre in Brisbane now? Don't you send him money? By the way, I wonder if XXXXX's new hospital in Jardan, India, will actually treat the poor or if it's only there to line his bankaccount and only treat people who can pay for it? Isn't it also true that the poor Indian workers in Jadan who are building his Yoga Centre there, get paid a pittance? Fair enough, he does have a refuge there for abandoned cows, but they are quite busy milking them, aren't they? Why doesn't he have a refuge for abandoned and sick dogs? I am amazed that he actually puts claims on the Internet about his Master XXXXX 's Master Mahaprabhuji raising the dead. Anyone interested, check out the book "Lila Amrit", written by Paramhans Swami XXXXX (XXXXX's master) about his master Mahaprabhuji.You can't deny that stuff like that is pretty weird. But I was stupid enough to fall for it and when my dog got sick I was silly enough to ask XXXXX for help. He prayed for my dog's painrelief, ha ha. My dog's pain got worse, and now he is dead. So much for the healing powers in the Guru lineage. What a joke. I stand by what I say, SM is a liar, and a master manipulator. And I've had enough of his comments about him being the only one to get us to "liberation", or God. He's a fox, too, because he is careful what he says and to whom. Elisabeth

  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @elisabeth: you gave him money for this prayer for your dog? Of course in form of dakshina-(dakshina is mechanism how to pay for something without pay for something) Few last year it was very curious..a lot of prayers for donators on every satsangs...
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji June 2011
    Posts: 255
    @ 'little you': "I have corresponded with her this year, and find it quite ironic that she told me to see a psychiatrist back in 2009, but now SHE believes the sex allegations, and I don't. WOW!!"

    This is not WOW or contradiction at all, she has just opened her eyes, why you have closed yours is another problem and actually gives strength to her reccomendation to you.

    I didnt call you stupid , ever- I Just said what you had done was rude to us, and stupid and harmfull , and it is and I still see it that way

    2. talking to a good psychiatrist actually could help you cause you have quite distorted perception.
    No one from this forum is against you, or wants to harm you or to insult you but if you constantly repeat certain senseless patterns it just means you are not listening to the others at all , not communicating in 2 directions, just expressing your perception of realiyt and admitt it - it is very confused one.

    As i already said- problems with you started from 3 reasons
    1. you have never explained what is your secret problem with XXXXX 'cause it is something very intimate- it didn't stop you to question and listen to most intimate confessions of all the victims of the sexual abuse
    2. when you found out of sexual abuses you suddenly started to interpret one oy your ' experiences' as a sexual , which i could not support cause it was obviously very weak and maybe just your interpretation ) post it here and see the reactions of others?)
    that disspleased you and you started to withdraw, specially when people on forums ion croatia and slovenia and other, started to make fun out of your' experience' , not me, i never made fun out of you i just suggested you not to run into conclusions cause your weak and unreal experiences were making our real and obvious abuses look less trut , you were just lowering our credibility
    3. your site was already N1 in search engines so U very kindly and politely asked you to put a link to our site on the first page of your site, not 3 levels deep where noone can find it.

    you took it as an forcing , agressivenss etc other nonsense
    then you started to apologize to swxxx for no reason ?! very strange behaviour from your side-
    i hope one day you'll realze how hurtfull you are for nothing and that your brain is inventing stories that hurt you even more. may god help you!
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    Request for nominations for new Australian aayidl board.

    The request below only just came through a few hours ago via email - not much time to respond really, but i guess those who are interested will be ready to put in their nominations. The deadline is midnight tomorrow night.

    After speaking to a few different people over the last week, i'm left wondering if anybody will stand for the new board except for those that Gurudev has specifically requested. It doesn't seem like it.

    There is a lot of responsibility involved in those board positions to follow proper legal processes and ensure ethical principles are upheld at all times. Those who are not current board members and have the capacity to manage that responsibility are not very interested to lead an organisation that is so strongly divided, is in such great conflict and has foundations that are shaking as if there were an earthquake about to happen.

    This is not the Bhagavad Gita, its just a simple group of people who were hoping to offer something positive to the community. Since that doesn't look possible, why stay, why make a new board? It looks like only one side is wanting to fight - the others will most likely take a well earned rest. For the ones who are willing to fight - i'm not so sure they will also be willing to work hard and work ethically, let us wait and see.


    "Dear Members,

    Please forward all nominations by Saturday the 18th of June 2011 23:59hrs.

    Nominations will be included on the proxy form, and any other relevant information, to be emailed on Sunday the 19th June 2011.

    If nominees wish to include supporting documentation this can be included with the outgoing email on Sunday 19th June 2011.
    (Please ensure all documents are only in a PDF or Word format (word to be saved as word 93, not 07 or 10 version))

    For those wishing to be nominated, below is a starting point to understand what is involved in being on a not for profit board.

    “Our Community is a world-leading social enterprise that provides advice
    and tools for Australia's 600,000 not-for-profit community groups and state,
    private and independent schools, as well as practical linkages between the
    community sector and the general public, business and government”

    Source: http://www.ourcommunity.com.au/files/boards_essentialfacts.pdf
    "

    So, let us see what Sunday brings!
    Let's continue to hope that something positive may come of it all.

    God of all things, please offer us your protection from the vampires, robots, 20 thieves, absolute totalitarian regimists, yellow canaries, pumpkin eaters, muppets and the like.
  • Australia_CallingAustralia_Calling June 2011
    Posts: 42
    AND look below at what someone just forwarded on to me.

    Svi only invited half the members. Not like SriRa - he sent his letter to all the members. So Svi must have had all the addresses and could have sent it directly to all if she had wanted to. This is the new way of things i guess, what was it i was saying above about being 'strongly divided'...

    Looks like this may be our new President's style perhaps.

    "Hari OM All

    Just a short note to let you all know that we will be holding SATSANG on Saturday evening the 25th June (the night before the Special General Meeting) at Kensington ashram at 6.30pm.

    It would be lovely to see you if you are able to come and swAmi will be speaking with us direct from Jadan.

    If you know of anyone who has not been included in this list and you feel they would like to come and share the evening with us, could you please let them know.

    Also, for those Bhaktas travelling from interstate there is accommodation available for a couple of people at both P...’s and D...’s houses. Otherwise, if you would like to stay within walking distance of the Ashram there is a place close by called Addison’s.

    May Mahaprabhuji’s love and light continue to shine brightly within your hearts.

    Sadhvi M"

    Let us hope that something positive may come of it all - even for the uninvited members.

    God of all things, please offer us your protection from the vampires, robots, 20 thieves, absolute totalitarian regimists, yellow canaries, pumpkin eaters, excessive quantities of love and light, muppets and the like.
  • mangal June 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @Australia_Calling: love bombing is often method of some cults...Take care:)
    SwAmi will have talk with them the evening before the Meeting , yes it sounds very strange.....like maharaja and rebellious children...
  • karavan June 2011
    Posts: 135
    Reply to @Australia_Calling: I sent you a private message, please check
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to@Australia_Calling:
    If this goes on for much longer, your list at the end will be longer than Rig Veda :)
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    I just saw a documentary about Maharishi Mahes Yogi (MMY) and his TM-movement. The title of the film is 'David wants to fly'. It was interesting, there were many similarities with other gurus and cult-groups, such as the harem, the transcendental rubbish, the power struggle after the death of MMY, etc. But what I want to mention here is that MMY's family is one of the richest in India. The family has been estimated to have a net worth of several billions of dollars. On the other hand hundreds of millions of dollars raised for all kinds of projects have basically dissapeared, most of the projects haven't been carried out. When I add one to one I think I know how this family has become so wealthy.

    The same can be said of the 'hugging saint' Amma. Her family has also become very rich.

    That raises the question for me: how about swAmi's family? Someone wrote before on this forum that there are lots of relatives of swAmi in some of his ashrams in India. I'm wondering: couldn't that be where a lot of money goes? Interesting question, not?

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/263041
  • Roman June 2011
    Posts: 347
    Even some people have tried to ridicule my talking about taxes, misused money etc, one thing is clear. If the organization is tax exempt, it’s a whole new ball game. You cannot be just collecting money for non-or just barely-existing projects. It is close to tax evasion and money extortion. It is illegal in most of the civilized world. The only way how to guarantee that money goes where it’s supposed to is that people ask for records and updates. If somebody was talking about full transparency of hospital project, please show me a public report of cash flow and how money was used. I know from past that the person who started that project (being asked by swAmi) has put a lot of her/his energy, resources and hard work in it. S/he cannot be happy about the current situation (of the hospital) either. Can people start being real and good and spiritual in a real and good sense of the word or they’ve been just swept away by unfulfilled promises and manipulations? Maybe they can convince some people that all this we have been talking about is a lie or imagination of distorted minds. At the end, they will have to face the reality of what’s left. And the only forum they will have for that will be themselves. Good luck then.
  • karavan June 2011
    Posts: 135
    Perhaps there are some written numbers in ashrams how much money was given in cash, was this money a part of the legal income of the associations or it was "black" money?

    What about the wealth of SwAmi family now and 10, 20 years ago? Is it growing? From what is it growing?
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    swAmi's wealth rapidly started to grow in the moment when the system of licensed instructors (famous 20%) was introduced. For instance after maha-rudra-yagya om ashram project was halted for years because of the lack of money. If I remember properly it was around 2000 when the project was re-introduced but in a much bigger scale than previously conceived. You must know that in late eighties people in Zagreb were collecting money for swAmi's gas in order to come from Vienna with his Kadett. Later Ford Scorpio Ghia and than the biggest Volvo, later I don't know. Besides enormous royalities for (c) of licensed YIDL instructors he is constantly receiving "envelopes" from rich (more semi-rich) devotees and really rich Indian nuovo riches. However his family was (at least in my time) on the edge of poverty, his brothers in rags. Only his mother's house in Rupavas was enlarged and rebuilt in 1990 so it looks incredible in the midst of mud huts around. (this was the situation in 1998 when I visited Rupavas, I don't know what happend later)
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @Ivan:
    our dear "all knowing" -"heard the rumor" Ivan doesn't have a clu. If he does than he would know that licence fee was/is 12% from the beginning. Then, Om ashram building never stopped. Then , licences started in 2002 and he (Ivan) remembered that in 2000 ..blabla. Then in the late eighties people were collecting money for Sxxxx gas to come to Croatia... another cr.. I don't think so, from 1992 till 1999 it was war in Croatia, Sxxx was not coming to Croatia during the war, I think that he came again in 2000 or so.
    Oh how god that you know all his cars, man, what were you doing when you were disciple, I don't know his cars by heart or things like this. Yes, what a wealth..a volvo...OMG.
    Well dear Ivan if your remembrance is so well, than you also could know that he has same shoes last 10-15 years, also coat (brown one with for me funny collar). You should remember how he was/is on the way 75% of his time, in the cars, plain...everyday in other hotel room or some bhaktas apartment where people like you were snooping in everything what he has (like photo album you said) doesn’t left him not a moment of privacy. How many days in the year is he spending in his Vienna apartment? Or anywhere? Common, you cannot sell “your knowledge” as you think, so many holes you have in it. Your “knowledge” is based on rumors, and rumors are bullsheet . There are many rumors about me or you, don’t you think? I know that there are. Are they true? Thank God there are many people who are here and remember those time you are speaking about.
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    Reply to @member: please read more carefully, I said in the eighties, war was in nineties (1991-1995), but he was here during the war also. But why you are upset about people collecting money for gas? It's a nice , almost pro-swAmi story. It wasn't meant to bash swAmi, only an example of his different material status in these times which was more in accordance with samnyasa. I also feel that it is quite OK and honest to say something is a rumour.
    Nobody said that he isn't a hard-working man: just the same as any company director. Only I think he is doing this because he is sex and power hungry. As any other manager in the world.
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @Ivan: At the very beginning, he didn't even have a driver's license and he was whisked around by an old Austrian lady named Katharine in a beige Volkswagen beetle! After he passed his driving test, she "gave" him the bug. I think the Kadett was after that. All his early cars were used and gifts from disciples who had bought new cars for themselves. Just to highlight the initial level he started from...

    Anyway, compared to Osho, he's a loser. Once, during a who-is-who discussion at work someone asked "Rajneesh... is he the guy with twenty-five Rolls Royces?" ---" No, that has to be someone else. Rajneesh had ninety-three Rolls Royces."
  • pavitra June 2011
    Posts: 270
    Member your memory is not fabulous as well. I was in Vep at the Fellowship meeting when the 12% fee was introduced. It was in 1999 or 2000. Before all the yoga centres were giving an envelope of money at the Gurupurnima every year. swAmi started the meeting saying that he needs more money to support the building of the Om Ashram in Jadan as well as the other humanitarian projects.
    The Croatian war was between 1991 - 1995.
    Regarding his car park I think that is worth mentioning the cars he has in India (a Jeep and a BMW if I'm not wrong) and while travailing he has always a VIP 5 stars treatment with special staff dedicated to him (driver, cookers, room maidens, secretary and security). But it looks that he provides for his bedtime entertainment himself.
  • Tony June 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @pavitra: Room maidens ;-) Nice...

    Nor sure if it was a truly brilliant pun, or just an English mixup and you had meant room maids. Maiden means a female virgin.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @pavitra: my memory is just fine. I know definately that licence started at 2002. Nothing before. Envelopes I don't know about, and who was giving dakshina and when. XXXXX was not in Croatia from 1991 till 1997 I checked. Yes two or 3 cars , one in Europe and one or two in India is really too much, such reach man. No, he has not always 5 stars accomodation, not at all, bhaktas appartments usualy, Vep is student home, some Croatian tourist vilages (not hotel) together with his students etc. Driver, cookers and so are the bhaktas which are more that please to do that (not payed profesionals).
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    SwAmi was in cro in 1993, 1995, 1997, 1998 and 1999. During my stay in Jadan the om ashram project was temporarily cancelled. It started in 1995 but was cancelled immediately after, only some small parts were built. While om was cancelled the student building (which was destroyed in fire) was enlarged and the new jupa was built in two phases. Than in 2000 or 2001 they started again the om project but with a complete new plan which included a stone temple, stone carved pillars of much greater quality and price, more floors, halls. Overall the project exploded. With that swAmi's belongings tended to explode- new two storey apartement in Vienna, biggest Volvo, brand new Tata Safari Jeep and Mercedes in India... The point is that YIDL started to grow in the time om was reintroduced. Why? Maybe exactly because of the perfect royality scheme which motivated instructors very much. In cro everything exploded after that. In that time there was no humanitarian projects. When I was already gone rainwater harvesting was introduced and after all other things.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2011
    Posts: 0
    Reply to @Ivan:
    well check again your memory, Porec in 1991 and nothing during the war till I think 1997 or 1998. But this is really not important, as you said.
    Yes, one apartment in Vienna and 2-3 cars are really big fortune :-). I didn't know that I am almost a reach women.
    Of course that Om ashram was not built while student house and jupa (meditation hall) was building. Yes, humanitarian project followed one by one after some basic building were built. This is normal. You cannot build the school if you have no water or electricity, you cannot build talab (pool for the water) before some buildings and so...ask engineers.
  • truthseeker June 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @member: maybe swAmi is not corrupt with money, maybe he is, we don't know.

    But it's definitely worth investigating, certainly when all the other dress-wearing gurus are corrupt. Some of them are (or were) even multi-millionaires or billionaires, like Amma, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sai Baba, Baba Ramdev, Maharishi, Osho, you name them.

    Compared with them swAmi is a very small fish, but his empire was expanding till a short while ago. Now I'm not so sure anymore, with all the bad publicity.
  • Ivan June 2011
    Posts: 161
    Reply to @member: A little bit of historical reconstruction is always ok with me. Yes- Poreč in 1991 and 1997; after that Umag every year, but also Zagreb in 1993 (MIOC lecture).
    Upper Pavitra's post describes good how high his luxory standards are. Every year I was engaged in preparing his apartements, sometimes I was in the kitchen, here and there serving him. This was completly crazy, out of every proportion.
    And don't forget the Sheraton presidential suite in 2002. He didn't want to be at Lj as usual but in Sheraton because Dalai-lama was in Sheraton. But Dalai-lama was in normal room and swAmi in presidental suite... Actually swAmi flew to Zagreb to be here exactely in the same time as Dalai-lama was in order to get some publicity and photos...
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