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sex abuse scandal, Part II
  • angela July 2011
    Posts: 13
    hello, I offered before to meet up in Vienna, it looks like we have an separate meeting for ex xxx people who like to join forces, exchange ideas of "what can be done..." etc. Once again. I will be there from 23. of August for some days. Please contact me and beforehand we may can skype and get to know each other and touch ground. For some Vienna seems far and I may travel further through other countries, so there are more private meeting possibilities. I also like to meet people here in my country, so do not hesitate, write me and we shall organize it.
  • someonefromhungary July 2011
    Posts: 334
    advertising text from the webcast page from yesterday night:

    "Recognizing the Guru, 17 Jul 11

    Morning program with swami Jasraj, Strilky Ashram, Czech Republic. We are very quick to judge everything. It is not easy to understand the acts of the Guru. We do not know what all is behind of that. The Guru can transform the disciple. When the Guru gives you a really hard time, do not run away, go closer. Everything what happens is a teaching on the spiritual path and a golden chance to learn something. He who really understand the Guru, he himself will become the Guru. The promise we gave, is to follow him. The promise he gave, is to guide us until the end. The Guru is always inside of us. Guru Tattva. Protect that flame, keep the light burning and let it shine."

    (I only caught the last two words of it, so can't tell much more)
  • Shivashakti July 2011
    Posts: 75
    I am so curious about sw jasraj... he will be interesting to watch... will his integrity come through at the end or will he be swayed by Svami Jay and the glamour/ excitement /power of his roles...?

    And what about the Guru Tatva? I believe in that element in the Universe that is the principle of spiritual evolution, the bringing of darkness to light. But I no longer believe in the "He was understands everything". It is a very dangerous thing in Hinduism. The God in human form. The Guru that is higher than God. I believe all our good experiences with Yidl and Svami Jay was from our own pure intentions to know God, to know ourselves, and the guru tattva worked through that.. but it can work through anything reading, writing, conversations, music, scriptures, insights, meditation... and it all comes from our desire to Know. Seek and you will find. I will protect the Guru Tattva inside me. But I will not protect the Guru who abuses. This is spiritually justified abuse "the guru who gives a hard time". Why can abuse be justifiied as karma and spiritual growth. Abuse is abuse. Hari Om Tat Sat.
  • elisabeth July 2011
    Posts: 112
    To Mangotree, and your comment: "I am one of his 'targetted' women - so please if you have questions about what happened then ask away and i'll address them as openly as i can."
    Targeted by Swami H? I would love to hear more! I never got anything out of Lksm here in Sydney about H's disappearance to New Zealand. So it really is true? My God! It's a shame you hide behind another name, so I don't know who you are, but I'm sure you'd know me. I'm not exactly ugly, and normally men are sexually attracted to me, but I never, ever got that vibe from H! Maybe I wasn't around enough? Not his type? He must have worked on it slowly, I suppose. But isn't it amazing how wrong one can be in such matters. I saw him as a completely "sex-less" person. Found him way too controlling, I suppose my desire for freedom and independent thought has helped me never get too close to the "fire" (ha ha, that's a funny twist...normally Gurus say..I will put you in the fire.....and transform you....but in this case...the fire was H's own fire of passion and lust.) My God.

    The lies, so many lies! H once said to me, after I told him through tears that my brother has cancer: "We (! ?) see what we can do". I never forget that. He actually pretended he was in touch with God/godly forces who could save my brother. I didn't like his comment, found it very strange. Well, my brother died of throat cancer, age 42.

    What is wrong with these men? Is it a form of self-delusion? Delusions of grandeur? A form of insanity?
  • Thank_You July 2011
    Posts: 32
    l Reply to @speakup:
    On the previous page in response to people in the organisation “who knew”

    I am also annoyed with people who knew about swAmi and have sat in the background, but in my mind I have had to divide these people into a couple of categories. Those people who I came across.

    1. There are those who knew...
    in some way but didn't allow themselves to believe it and it kind of sat dormant and it re-awakened within themselves and they went through the same “shocking awakening " as if they just heard. They were in themselves a kind of victim of the information. They only allowed themselves to believe it when there was enough mass of people waking up together.

    2. There are those who knew...
    participated as a victim but only slowly over time awakened to the shocking truth of it, again it was slow they needed time to accept it.

    3. There are those who know,...
    have known for some time and have had time to accept the situation and have made a choice to continue. And they continue knowing that the people around them have not had the same choice to decide for themselves whether they would continue with this knowledge and I am sure they know that we “would not! ".

    4. There are those who know...
    and still think that what they are doing is in some way kind of Holy and do not have the capacity to wake up!

    I am annoyed and have been angry with those who in category 3.

    Still, even some in category 3, may not be really awake just deeply mesmerized by the pretty colour orange

    For my part, I was so deeply into swAmi that when I did my research and found out

    that it was

    so, so, so, utterly shocking
    that …. I could hardly move for three weeks,
    that …..I could hardly feed myself,
    that …..I could not take care of my grooming in my usual way.

    I realised that I actually was "really was" indoctrinated .

    Some of those things that swAmi would say about
    “the cat is coming "
    "or being a bad disciple",
    "or I am supposed to be a good monkey and block my ears and eyes"
    “ being damned for a million lives”
    “ and lots more”

    it all just overwhelmed me.

    I had grief, anger and deep shock,

    I really had to sit with myself to free myself and analyse each part of it
    and then it took a couple of months before I had a 1normal day.

    So I want to say,
    that those that are still in the organization are unable to deal with the truth, or the grief, or the shock, and these are just a few of the things that have to be faced,
    many may just be in survival mode.

    At the moment I am busy feeling thankful to be freed
    sorry for the long post
  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Thank_You: you don't have to apologize for the long post, your words are very true and you express very well what many other people also feel. Thanks! :)
  • someonefromhungary July 2011
    Posts: 334
    Reply to @Thank_You: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
    thank you dear Thank_You, especially for this: "and have made a choice to continue. And they continue knowing that the people around them have not had the same choice to decide for themselves whether they would continue with this knowledge"
  • speakup July 2011
    Posts: 57
    Reply to @Thank_You: Thank you for your wise reflections these are very helpful.
  • cultrecovery August 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @Thank_You: thanks for writing it down so well
  • Thank_You July 2011
    Posts: 32
    you have to be BRAVE to wake up!
  • cultrecovery July 2011
    Posts: 23
    For @speakup. I was one of the women that was with SwH and at the time i found it almost impossible to speak about. I told only 1 person. It was one of the hardest things i ever did.

    Over the years I spoke to some whom I am close to and whom I trusted, I almost spoke to my parents because i felt so bad. I am struggling even today to deal with what happened with SwH and feel...terrible about it. It makes it worse when others blame and speak to me as though it was my fault that i didnt 'speak up' at the time.

    I can imagine if you found out about this news that yes it is shocking and adds to the mess that is AAYiDL, but I am not a bad person, I gave my life to this in the belief that i was doing something good. I believe my speaking up was one of the reasons why SwH was sent to NZ. XXX was told about it. I also believe I will never feel comfortable talking about it openly in the fear that i will be judged.

    I to this day am processing why i was with SwH at that time. I feel embarressed and ashamed to say it happened to me. I feel sick about it. I just wanted you to know that i am one of the 'small group of australians', who has a heart that has been destroyed by all of this. Someone who has tried to do the right thing.
  • VeritasVeritas July 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @cultrecovery:
    Do not allow anyone to put the blame on you. You know that something wrong was done to you. It is important that you know how it was. May others think what they like. So much harm done, so much confusion around. Just know for yourself what is wrong and what is right.
  • cultrecovery July 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @Veritas: Thanks Veritas, you seem cool to me :)
  • seekingtruth July 2011
    Posts: 24
    Reply to @cultrecovery:

    Dear cultrecovery, if only I had known at the time, I could have and would have done my best to offer some loving support to you guys, in whatever ways you may have found comforting, appropriate and acceptable. May God bless you and set you free from the turmoil into the peace xo
  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @seekingtruth:

    but what do you think of SwH's behaviour and the way the situation was handled by swAmi? SwH's swamihood wasn't taken away from him, the Australians weren't informed about what had happened and why he was transferred to NZ (apparently only some knew, apart from the ones that SwH had slept with).

    I also assume the people from NZ didn't know why SwH was sent to them, so they couldn't take precautions to prevent the same from happening in their country. Did he do the same in NZ or did he change his behaviour?

    Maybe he has continued the same conduct, but with more caution. That may be the (wrong) lesson he has learned. He can do what he likes, as long as he takes care it doesn't lead the organisation into trouble. That is, swAmi. "L' état, c'est moi."

    I think it's unlikely that SwH has changed overnight. He still has his needs, that's perfectly normal, so why doesn't he just admit it and disrobe himself, instead of leading a double life? The same goes for swAmi.

    It all reminds me of the catholic church.
  • cultrecovery July 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @seekingtruth: It's now the women who have been abused by Sji's turn to receive the "loving support", in "whatever way" we can to "comfort, appropriately and acceptably".
  • speakup July 2011
    Posts: 57
    Reply to @cultrecovery:
    I am so sorry if I have caused you any further pain, I don't blame you personally in any way, please forgive me.

    I just feel so hurt and angry, I feel that I have been fed so many lies I don't know what or who can be trusted anymore...
  • cultrecovery July 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @speakup: I think its good to realise that there are real people behind all these things and all the comments and judgements we make.
    I share with you the hurt and anger and betrayal.
    I think we can only trust...well I can only trust my parents. I dont put my trust in this anymore - I would be happy to speak to you one day about my story if you are open to it.
  • joyriver August 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @cultrecovery: Dear, I'm so sorry for what happenned to you. It is uderstandible that you are heartobroken and it is terrible that you had to go through such a terrible experience. I have been through a similar experience and it felt like someone ripped my heart out of my chest. It took about 10 years for me to recover. And thank god I had some loving people to help me to put together pieces of myself again. It is not your fault! Thank you for sharing this with us. It takes courage to speak up. But here you're in good company. :)
  • cultrecovery August 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @joyriver: Thanks @Joyriver. Its amazing to learn so many of us went through similar experiences and didnt know about it. We are not always alone. Best wishes.
  • mangal July 2011
    Posts: 489
    Funny is, that some people arround me, who one year ago tryed to persuaded me about sw Cici-that he is surely enlighted, now the same people says-everything is caused by this horrible sw Cici and now-try to gues what.........yes-no more Cici is enlightened-currently sw JP is surely enlighted.....my God.......is it your joke or some people in yidl mean it? Like children-JP comes in our country with new titul (given by some hindu fanatics from akara from many political reasons) and crowd start to look up to this new XXX........
  • seekingtruth July 2011
    Posts: 24
    Reply to @mangal:

    Dear mangal, yes I agree, it is dangerous to put anyone up on a high pedestal from where they can one day fall. Expectations usually lead to disappointment.

    We are all divine and we are all special in our own unique way. Reverance and respect is deserved by every one of us. It is understandable that we feel stronger respect for those who we feel inspired by - but when we realise it is their message/teaching/loving vibration that we are benefitting from, especially when we follow through and put it into practice, then we can also realise that we feel that benefit because it is resonating with the same qualities within our self. Just like a mirror.

    So rather than putting someone down or holding someone up too high, perhaps we can see and respect the Light within them and also acknowledge and nourish the Light within our self.
  • elisabeth July 2011
    Posts: 112
    Seekingtruth....why do I feel sick whilst reading your posts? I feel violated just reading the c..p you put here. You are absolutely deluded, opinionated, slimy, holier than us...etc...my God..I'm sorry...but my skin crawls reading your ignorant, seemingly spiritual ramblings. It really is just mindless, wishy washy c...p.

    Are you the teacher who I spoke to just recently here in Australia? The one that said, well, SM has omniscient powers and whatever he does is ok, and that the Sex, if it happened at all, was consensual? Are you the one who didn't even bother reading the Abuse Stories? If it is not you, ok, but by the sound of your posts you could just as well be siblings. It's quite sick, the mindset you are in. Also reminds me of the guy who resides in Sydney now: His skin is that thick, nothing can hurt him. His mind is that set, nothing will shake him. I really don't have the patience to dissect all your posts, and challenge the logic. Maybe Batawe would be so kind? He has more patience than me.
  • batawebatawe July 2011
    Posts: 409
    Well, I am not being offended by "seekingtruth", and I rather challenge the philosophical issues;)))
  • satya July 2011
    Posts: 5
    Anybody has seen the video Monty Python's "Life of Brian" ? :)
    The szene, where the crowd is running behind Brian and he lost his shoe? So, come on, "A man´s will is his heaven". :))

    The crowd is very unpredictable - or the opposite - very predictable.
    It reacts in the "collective" consciousness and always just does, what seems the safest way at all ...
    That always had have sense in the evolution.
    In this respect, there isn´t so much difference between the human and the animals.
    It´s pity, but human habit...
  • PallasAthene July 2011
    Posts: 246
    That's not too bad. It is wonderful and hard at the same time. We are animals with consciousness. We can therefore understand the animals and keep the whole thing as a challenge in mind and act accordingly. We live in a time of change and have to watch doomed to recognize the signs. And there are few who can do that. These few should not spend their time trying to smile at others, they should go forward. That's the price for an expanded consciousness. We should not lead discussions on cultural, medieval habits, but support those who need our help.

    All archaic belief systems are changing and many need a loving hand that they can feel that life goes forward. Fear eats souls.
  • mangal August 2011
    Posts: 489
    seekingtruth has interesting style of writing-so sweet to everybody, nice to read......but-if XXX act as paramostrich, then his followers will be a little bit like ostriches.......I dont see problem-problem isnt here.....I would ask once again-why AAYIDL give away thanks? You can contact girl 5. Did you? Sweetness is nice, but what is the difference between it and blind trust?
    We speak here about person: XXX who act like feudal Maharaja (it grows-it is obvious-everybody can see-different is just how we explain it-it is grow of his megalomany and egoism or it is caused by need of political support in India?) We speak here about feudal with absolut power, who is blindely followed by thousands. We speak here about person, who is accused by girls from sexual abuse-many from us know this girls personaly and know them as honest girls-not mad as this person who speak about proclaim. We speak about person, who collect money from reach and poor people and play with it his megalomany theatre play in desert(crazy expensive buildings without sensable usage which can be comparable with fired amount. Therefore we cant speak so sweetly as you-but i agree-when we give our heads into sand-everything will be more perfect-no criticism-just be positive¨:)
  • admin August 2011
    Posts: 61
    We have received some interesting email discussion between previously devoted female yidl student and one of the yidl swamis. Place – down under. It was sent to us by the female ex-student.

    Following some inappropriate experiences last year with a swami of YIDL, here below is an email discussion that we had about celibacy. It does make me wonder how many YIDL swamis are carrying on like this.

    (Nb: For the record, this is about physical intimacy, but not sex. The swami talked about getting our bodies tangled up, which is where the ‘tangled’ comes from.).

    Previously Devoted Female YIDL Student, 8/6/2010: I'm not sure swamis are supposed to tangle. Someone might get hurt.

    Swami G, 9/6/2010: You are right technically speaking swamis are not supposed to tangle. That's exactly it. However, at the end of the day we are also just humans. Life doesn't care you are a swami or not. It hits you like the Shinkansen, so fast that you have no chance at all. I think I am good at controlling myself and things in life but I only think that. Too much thinking, no enough being in the present moment…

    Being in the shower with you was just what I had dreamt about one night many weeks before it happened. It came true in a little bit different way but somehow we got together under the running warm water. It was like an unexpected gift at an unexpected time but then I remembered my list of dos and don'ts as a swami... Oh no, I am not supposed to do this. Hey, wait a minute!

    Acting according to the dictate of the present moment is really to be a swami, daydreaming about something based on expectations and attachments is what needs to be avoided. Sounds like I screwed up. So, what now? Do swamis allowed to tangle? :)))

    Prviously Devoted Female YIDL Student, 9/6/2010: Of course Life doesn't care if you are a swami, but I do. Right in the moment, in every moment, you are still a swami. That's your commitment, isn't it? I don't exactly know what that involves, but you say, technically speaking, swamis are not supposed to tangle. Presumably there is a reason for it that benefits you.
    Or are you saying that everything is ok as long as it's detached? I'm not so sure.

    Swami G, 10/6/2010: Not tangling (not only physically, in fact, mainly emotionally) is for protecting those who will get attached to the sense objects, they bog down and start entertaining desires going on in circles and when they cannot get the desired object they become angry. From anger delusion proceeds as well as confusion and ruined reason. See, how attachment creates suffering and pain for everyone involved.

    The antidote is to REALLY know that life is a continuous change. Nothing is stationary… I know it is hard, very hard for us humans because we are hardly ever in the present moment, in fact, we are never in it consciously not even while having sex. We never really experience anything to its full potential with its full beauty... and that's why we are never fully satisfied and we keep going on in circles. Apparently if we could stay in the present moment we would never crave anything and would be always contented and happy with whatsoever we have right there.

    I mentioned sex before. Do you agree with that? Otherwise we would not want it again and again, right? I mean not craving it, just have it when it comes unplanned like that shower moment with you. Or did you plan that ahead? Hmm... I could have, based on my previous dream but I did not. Strange, what a dream it was (see I am talking like Yoda, my grand master :)). Of course, an unfinished dream and perhaps it could have given a reason to plan to finish. […] Next time be more attentive!

    So, I hope that clears things up. For this YIDL swami, celibacy means ‘not getting emotionally attached’. To protect himself. Surely the average teenaged boy can achieve this so-called ‘celibacy'?

    When I later read about swAmi’s sexual abuses of his female students I was sickened and sorry. The women have been brave to speak out and I wish them every happiness.
  • Shivashakti August 2011
    Posts: 75
    Reply to @admin: wow,
    I really don't think this celibacy thing works... reproduction is an intrinsic principle in nature, since cells started to first divide, and life began on this planet, it is all reproduction and sexual . It is so much bigger than craving, and urges, it is LIFE. Being in the present moment or not getting emotionally attached will not make it go away... Repression leads to many problems.
    hmm ... i need to reflect on this.. this Swami won't look at BigORangeGuru's abuses because of the guilt of his own urges ?
  • grateful August 2011
    Posts: 6
    Reply to @Shivashakti:

    I agree that celibacy could be a very difficult undertaking for alot of people and the whole thing needs to be reviewed.
    It is interesting how he seems to have his own definition and rules for himself as a yidl swami
    “For this YIDL swami, celibacy means ‘not getting emotionally attached’. To protect himself."
    If you had asked any “normal” yidl practitioner and devotee what celibacy means and what the vow of celibacy means for a swami – it would have been quite different to this.
    Basically – no sex and any type of sexual contact (or "tangle").
    It is also interesting that some yidl practitioners and devotees are able to be more "celibate" than these swami's are.
    But, to be honest i have never been to a swami initiation so i don’t know what they were told or what they “vowed” to. Maybe you could help with this one Roman?
    And, on the point of "to protect himself" - what about Ahimsa, no harm to others.
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