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  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    @mangotree: When we master says jump, we have to jump, is the thought. Total obedience is required. This total lack of personal freedom and responsibility is the mark of religious extremist groups and totalitarian regimes.
  • Roman July 2011
    Posts: 347
    Reply to @ mangotree:

    In my case d).

    I remember how back in my “swami days” I was trying to put some reasonable twist on stories/myths like that – like in g) of @Aussie_Karma_Yogi - that people would not just run out of the ashram screaming “cult, crazies, sexists…”. I would try to explain everything as just the inner metaphor for "the highest yogic wisdom". At the same time I felt very uneasy myself about it. When I read stories like that today I wonder how any adult, reasonable person can see inspiration in them. But I know that back in the days I fell in that trap too to some degree and that, I guess, helps me to put things into perspective and feel some understanding and empathy to those remaining in that trap.
  • Aussie_Karma_yogi July 2011
    Posts: 10
    On the 14th (above) Mangotree posted a response received from the empire on 6th May (http://sexabuseyidl.com/discussion/comment/3101#Comment_3101) in my response (http://sexabuseyidl.com/discussion/comment/3127#Comment_3127) I made two mistakes: I responded with humour, which might not communicate clearly (e and f); I also missed an important interpretation of the story.

    I think if we read the story in the context in which the message was sent, then we could read it as a threat. It was temporarily insensitive of me to miss that.

    (From my point g. and Roman's response http://sexabuseyidl.com/discussion/comment/3130#Comment_3130 I may eventually discuss the general necessity to read or reinterpret stories and mythology from the "glass half full" perspective. I don't think this story was sent, at this time, in that context, from that perspective.)

    My sympathies to the victims of the recent Mumbai bombings.

    The story Mangotree posted was received in the context of a series of complains against a male leader and a series of inquiries from the Australian organisers, who are mostly female, sent to the empire.

    This was one of many responses but none of them got to the point. There were only indirect or vague or general denials. There was no detailed discussion of the allegations. There was no discussion of process. There was no discussion of policy or standards. (All these assertions are "as far as I know".)

    So in this context we receive the story of Jamadagni who in a jealous rage orders his sons to behead his wife for a perceived minor lapse of faith. Only one of the five sons obeys.

    How does this relate to the crisis in which the empire finds itself? The Australian organisers, mostly female, are demonstrating a "lapse of faith" by asking difficult questions about important issues. The empire responds "we have many believers, some of them will do anything we ask". Maybe "Shiva's Wife" will enlighten us, is there some obvious non-threatening interpretation which I have missed?

    Al Qaeda, in it's various forms, has has an excess of fanatical, mostly young, mostly male, volunteers to blow themselves and other people up. Further Al Qaeda occasionally beheads their prisoners. I'm not meaning to make any political or religious comparisons here. I do mean to compare the psychology of fanaticisms.
  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Aussie_Karma_yogi: the story reminds me a little of the biblical story about Abraham who was ordered by God to build a sacrificial altar and sacrifice his son Isaac upon it. After binding his son to the altar and drawing his knife to kill him, in the very last moment an angel prevented Abraham from proceeding. This event served as a test of Abraham's faith to God.

    I think what Shiva's wife wants to say, is that one should have absolute faith in God/the Guru and do anything he asks for, in order to kill your ego. There is a reason for his asking, it's a test and you will be rewarded if you pass the test. So never doubt his authority, everything he does is for the good and although you will suffer, you will finally be rewarded with a good place in heaven, or enlightenment, or whatever.

    Following the orders can also include using violence against heretics or betrayers that threaten the religious community, so the story can also be interpreted as a threat. It's like inner and outer Jihad in Islam, inner Jihad means fighting your own sins, outer Jihad fighting the infidels who threaten Islam.
  • VeritasVeritas July 2011
    Posts: 218
    Reply to @truthseeker:
    A "god" who asks his disciple to kill his son, qualifies as demon in my oppinion. This is not a test of fate but proof of a sadistic nature. And a disciple who would be ready to carry out such an order, with the intention to save himself from the consequences of refusing such an order, has no compassion, even worse, he would sacrifice another life just to hold up the ideal, an ideology.
    Very good example of what is happening here. People are ready to sacrifice lifes of others, just to remain in their beautiful orange illusion.
  • truthseeker July 2011
    Posts: 541
    Dedicated to aayidl and their master Moneywantananda

  • mangal July 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @truthseeker: :-DDDD
  • PallasAthene July 2011
    Posts: 246
    after midnight beliefs in a cup of coffee :)

    Is there anyone who ever remembers
    changing their mind from the paint on a sign?,
    is there anyone who really recalls
    ever breaking rank at all
    for something someone yelled real loud one time?
    oh, everyone believes
    in how they think it oughta be
    oh, everyone believes
    and they're not going easily

    belief is a beautiful armor
    but makes for the heaviest sword
    like punching underwater
    you never can hit who you're trying for
    some lead the exhibition
    and some have to know they tried
    it's the chemical weapon
    for the war that's raging on inside
    oh, everyone believes
    from emptiness to everything
    oh, everyone believes
    and no one's going quietly

    we're never gonna win the world
    we're never gonna stop the war
    we're never gonna beat this
    if belief is what we're fighting for

    we're never gonna win the world
    we're never gonna stop the war
    we're never gonna beat this
    if belief is what we're fighting for

    is there anyone you can remember
    ever surrender with their life on the line?

    we're never gonna win the world
    we're never gonna stop the war
    we're never gonna beat this
    if belief is what we're fighting for

    we're never gonna win the world
    we're never gonna stop the war
    we're never gonna beat this
    if belief is what we're fighting for

    what puts a hundred thousand children in the sand?
    belief can, belief can
    what puts a folded flag inside his mother's hand?
    belief can, belief can
  • mangotree August 2011
    Posts: 118
    Reply to @batawe:
    thanks batawe this looks absolutely excellent - good find!!
    perhaps you will post some highlights for us?
  • Shivashakti August 2011
    Posts: 75
    Been watching Derryn Brown during my coffee break.. he is fascinating. "is a British illusionist, mentalist, painter, writer and sceptic". i posted one in the sex abuse thread, this is another one. Its long...

  • NoviSadCalling August 2011
    Posts: 175
    A questionnaire: what do you think @lun is?

    1. real person with really blurred vision
    2. intelligent, context-sensitive computer virus incorporated in forum software
    3. echo of extraterrestial civilization from outer space
  • Shivashakti August 2011
    Posts: 75
    Reply to @NoviSadCalling: hee hee; @lun is in a cult and brainwashed & blinded to reality so whilst option 2 & 3 are plausible :) there is a real person behind @lun whose vision is blurred, whose independence and viveka are numbed, and who is righteously and ignorantly defending a guru..
    @lun is not here to listen or reflect or to sincerely seek truth; @lun is not here to be a yogi and inquire about reality.. @lun is only here to tell us how wrong we are, and how right they are... @lun is like a robot, so perhaps more like 2 or 3 after all...
  • falseswamijifalseswamiji September 2011
    Posts: 255
    Reply to @NoviSadCalling: none of the above. just an evil and stupid person
  • August 2011
    Posts: 0
    do not forget that you were few months ago on ananda satsang with your gurudev
  • cultrecovery August 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @lun: you're definitely not a real bhakta if you have so much time on your hands to be on this forum. shouldn't you be doing something? meditating? singing? bowing? anything but wasting time here. better go now - got some work to do and a yoga class to teach! p.s. Thanks Lun for reminding me that i have made the right decision..actually you are quite good at that positive reinforcement stuff
  • Thank_You August 2011
    Posts: 32
    just writing to say that,,,
    Even though I am not a big writer, i am a big reader

    I am here in the silent background
    soaking up little gems where ever they fall.

  • Shivashakti August 2011
    Posts: 75
    Its helped my healing learning about cults and beliefs:
    Here is a list from exit-counselling about what helps recovery..
    • Being away from the group (Hassan)
    • Creativity – writing, artistic expression (like some of the beautiful poems and pictures here!)
    • Journaling/journal therapy or authentic writing (Dan Shaw)
    • Returning to pre-cult appearance – or creating new appearance
    • Reading – cult recovery books and other types of books
    • Television and movies - The Wave, Manchurian Candidate and many others
    • Meeting up with other ex-members, i guess like this forum..
    • Work
    • Study
    • Humour and fun
    • Exploring spirituality (when ready)
    • Warning others about cults
    • Returning to family and friends
    - Finding your 'pre-group' personality
    - also looking at what drew you to that teacher or group..where were you in your life..were you in transition between relationships, work, study, stages in life, grief etc.
  • Tony August 2011
    Posts: 172
    Reply to @Shivashakti:

    What a wonderful and thoughtful gift, your list! For me all this took place almost fifteen years ago, but I agree with every single point here.

    Let me see if I can add something. I would expand somewhat on your point "Humour and fun".

    I'd say the big part of the process for me was to undemonize many normal, ordinary, fun activities, which were forbidden under the YIDL yoke. I call it rediscover positive, beneficial sins. Rediscover Maya. Add some spice and juice back to your life. Become normal again.

    • Music, play or listen, even negative and angry music. Go for it, crank it up! It is the best.
    • Enjoy previously forbidden ingestibles (or inhalables), if you like, but use your brain, you know, some drugs are really bad for for you!
    • Sometimes, sleep in late. Sure, exercise, meditate, but don't be a slave to it anymore, it's meant to bring joy, not sense of duty or guilt of slacking.
    • Stay healthy if you can, but you know, everybody dies, so relax a bit. So, sometimes, eat something "bad for you" yet delicious to you (sugar, butter). The toxicity of worrying too much about your health is far more damaging than some occasional cholesterol OD.
    • Don't try to be always balanced, positive, friendly to all, etc. It is okay to feel angry, jealous, greedy, selfish, horny, etc. Everybody else is.
    • It is okay to crave a nice expensive camera, jewelry, dress, vacation... Get it if you can afford it.
    • The years of slavery have actually made you very strong and disciplined, so use it. Just re-channel your strength into something tangible, something real. Art, home renovations, start a new business or advance your career, learn to play an instrument, make more money, lose some weight.
    • There is a huge mystical universe outside of YIDL. Try some of the "competitors" methods: Martial arts, Tai Chi, church choir, Zen gardening, ride a unicycle, scuba dive.
    • Rediscover Nature, wilderness. Spend some time immersed in it. Rediscover true awe. Look at ocean, mountains, stars. Compared to the sheer awesomeness of Nature and this entire Universe, all man-made holy books and teachings are suddenly just pathetically... provincial.
  • cultrecovery August 2011
    Posts: 23
    Reply to @Tony: Thanks Tony - this is refreshing
  • Shivashakti August 2011
    Posts: 75
    Reply to @Tony: Thanks Tony!
  • batawebatawe August 2011
    Posts: 409
    tony is da sh--t!;) nail it brother!;)))
  • Chava August 2011
    Posts: 45
    At first sorry to all for personal message, but I know, this person has a duty to read this forum:
    Hi, Hxxxo Lxxxo,
    how do you enjoy to read all the posts?
    I hope it doesn´t take your time to much, cause I know, that you are really busy, even don´t have time you want to have for your family.
    I wish you a lot of strenght, sincerely.
    Take care.
  • truthseeker August 2011
    Posts: 541
    Reply to @Chava: just take some coffee, Hxxxo Lxxxo, you need it.
  • mangal August 2011
    Posts: 489
    Reply to @truthseeker: I think H L read it just for collecting info-he is too busy and he invested too much into yidl work therefore i doubt he think about it. Just performing command and let it be.
  • batawebatawe August 2011
    Posts: 409
    I just stumbled upon this video (2nd link), and apparently this guy is Adi Da's disciple or has been and they just talk about something which is about nothing;) and it is interesting to see this new 'masters' or sub-versions of masters;) it is difficult to render it quickly but certain thing remains: they all play, more or less, this game of "knowers" and just by body language and the 'performance' through taking the position of the one who knows, the subject who is supposed to know, than the natural thing proceeds, the ones who are there to listen to him and feast upon his 'knowledge';

    what is most interesting to me (and maybe that is because I think in this case from male perspective;), is to see this pretty beautiful women around many spiritual guys on "you tube", being there, listening or attending to the needs of a master/teacher/lecturer etc...and I always wonder (as if by trying to indentify with them and am always puzzled by the fact that what exactly do they see in those guys; of course, regardless of sex difference, we all see or worship or identify with something, more or less, even if that be your favourite writer or somebody else, but it's different when you want to adapt your life to the precepts of a chosen school or master, and I understand it, but still, as a man, I wonder what do they see in this man these girls;)))...

    of course, his power and position (symbolic phallus) which she than becomes a part of and gets new identity and women are more inclined to serve, take care of others (you can see in the 1st link, washing feet of the master etc...), but still, I always get this thought when I see those girls/women around some "knower of the truth", that "wouldn't it be better that she drove with her boyfriend or if she's alone, with her bike to the mountains or whatever creative she can do at home etc...than to talk this vague-spiritual-smudged-holistic-nonseparateness-talk,

    and I can't pass by the feeling (which you can openly pin on my male chauvinist perspective if you want;), that what the teacher can see in front of himself is this vibrant woman, regardless of the talk, ready for the sexual union, waiting to be impregnated;)- especially check the 2nd link for that matter, with this Sane Bonderman;)

  • batawebatawe August 2011
    Posts: 409
    for further clarification, when I said: "...that what the teacher can see in front of himself is this vibrant woman, regardless of the talk, ready for the sexual union, waiting to be impregnated;)" - it is not so clearly said; what I meant was the possible fact why do many masters and teachers fall on the sex thing, because they didn't transcended anything regardless the sex and they simply fall for the charms of a woman and their own insincerity in playing the role of the awakened etc...and she is there, ready to listen, learn etc...some are probably fine with it, if she can find his spiritual mentor or lover but some may find it awakening, seeing the futility of sitting there and waiting for some exquisite deliverance while talking about Finite and Infinite...
  • batawebatawe August 2011
    Posts: 409
    pain of not knowing;)
  • batawebatawe August 2011
    Posts: 409
    gift of immortal life and the cosmic vision:
  • PallasAthene August 2011
    Posts: 246
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