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Don´t ignore not everybody believes
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Dear people,

    I think most of swAmi´s disciples won´t leave him, just the fewest. Some, who already left him, will go back to him and to this more disciples will find the way. Please don´t ignore that you can´t assure everybody with internet stories...
    ...in a while, when the wounds heal up, life in YIDL will go on like before. I think, many disciples didn´t even bother themselves with abuse stories and many diciples won´t do it anymore, so nothing will have changed.

    To many many people (thousands of people and disciples) it seems like that you have constructed an internetcampaign with the aim of destroying swAmi, also for a revolution concerning the policy in YIDL insteed of helping and protecting victims or warn people. So some don´t care anymore and others stabilize their view of point with every new story about parts which doesn´t concern abused women (money, title etc.): We can´t destroy him with the abuse stuff, so let´s try something else...

    So what do they do? Do they believe swAmi, who gave them many peace and support in their live or do they believe stories of an internetcampaign, which includes destroy of their view of life.
    So please don´t forget to be aware of your actions, so please try to understand not only the so called victims, also the other side insteed of ignoring them.

    Why did I come here and wrote my opinion that´s not compatible with yours? I wanted to intend how your actions seem to many people and disciples. It´s not my intention neither to harm s. o., nor to attack, nor to provoke, nor to assure s. o. of my opinion. I am not using neither libels nor other methods of putting so. o. down.

    For me it doesn´t matter if you believe me. It´s up to you what or whom do you believe.

    You think I am attacking? - it´s up to you.
    You think it´s a trick? - it´s up to you.
    You think I am provoking? it´s up to you.
    You think I am defending s. o.? - it´s up to you.

    Maybe you can take it as support - it´s up to you.

    This is a free discussion and I hope it is allowed and acceptable to write an own opinion to this.

    Give peace a chance,

    bye bye
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    this is such a beautiful fairytale! you have absolutely right to have your opinion and enjoy your guru. But you don't have any right to blackmail people because they have a different opinion and are courageous enough to share their personal experiences with others. Go to your seminars and prey for us lost souls to come back as soon as possible. Prey don't attack!
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Dear pavitra,

    sorry, I don´t understand your behaviour. What is blackmailing? I respect your opinion.

    Sorry if you feel attacked. It was not my intention. I just wrote down my observations and how this all seems to me and other people (most of disciples). Is it wrong to write it down?
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    I think everybody can state their own opinion/thoughts/attitudes, let everybody decide on his/her own what consequence they will take upon themselves; is there any other way around this?, no, everybody has their own reasons for staying or not staying and different views are welcomed...neither side should feel 'threatened' and it's easy to 'threat' behind the screen...but let everybody take their own position and explain their reasons or attitudes even if they do not agree with everybody's view and than we can give some sensible replies...
  • zazaza May 2011
    Posts: 5
    For me this is the place to give a hand to abused women, to show them that we feel it is not right to treat any living being in such a manner . That they are not alone and not the one to be blamed. That they have the same right as all the others to be free, to feel divine and blessed.
    That they will not destroy my world if they make it clear that my former guru is not who pretend he is.
    And that they do not have to live in lie ever again.And pretend to enjoy in it
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Batawe, zazaza, I love your posts and completely agree. And Bermuenze, Pavitra, of course everybody is welcome to express their feelings and thaughts. For everybody else who decited to join in , please, don't "threat" behind the screen. I feel stil safe enaugh here to express my thaughts and feelings and as I understant, this should be a safe enaugh environment for all, to freely express themselves. Words do hurt sometimes, even if we are hidden behind anonimous names.
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    thx joyriver;)
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    Hi. I'm sorry I have been rude. I have already written that I know one of the victims very well. I always loved her and still love as my little sister. She is threatened by some fanatics very seriousely and is why I have the feeling I need to protect her. Otherwise it came to my mind today how absurde is this whole situation. We want to protect the victims and do our best to spread the truth because we think that swAmi is so powerful that he can easily get over them. Why his own faithful disciples need to come here and defend him? If you think that he is such a mighty guru having even some super powers, you don't think that he is able to defend himself? Against some idiotic lost souls that believe some stupid gossips made by someone that would like to get some powers...
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @pavitra: Yea, interesting, that he needs people to defend him. Without all those people disciples, he would not even exist. Nobody in the world would know of swAmi if there were not thousands of disciples worshiping him. He needs many many people to sustain his images to make them come true. Images are just bubbles of air. When you touch them, they pop and disappear.
    And he should be very thankful and respectful to all his disciples who so unselfishly dedicated their (part of or whole) lives to his idea. See, here a guru is dependant on his own disciples... to build Om ashram, just for one example. He is dependant... and thus attached. But not to real people out of genuine love, to his ideas and goals, using people to reach them - maharaj.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Baremuenze, if you read this forum you can see that any opinion is posted here. Yes, there are much more opinions which differ from yours but that has more to do with the others not participating in the discussion than anything else. I, and I am sure all the others too, really appreciate you speaking up here. That’s called communication. We all may hear all kinds of responses to any of our comments but that’s the whole idea. People can sort it out. As for myself, I can say that I really don’t care what happens with YIDL, their buildings, seminars and with swAmi. On the contrary what some other people said here about me, I am not jealous or trying to gain some material or whatever things out of this “campaign” . See my message to swAmi in Grassroots category. http://www.sexabuseyidl.net/discussion/comment/619#Comment_619 I mean it. And I am inviting anyone who has the same opinion about it to join me on that. I, we want him to acknowledge the truth and face it. In certain way you are saying that the “so called victims” are misunderstood by us. They are not. We don’t want to out them if they don’t want to. We want them to re-gain their dignity and self-worth. Those who don’t bother about the stories don’t bother us. Those are their lives. And the money, lies and other things categories added by us to just destroy your master? Everything is interconnected. Once you open one thing, it becomes a can of worms. Should you close it back and pretend that nothing happened? Not in my book. So once again, thank you for your participation and I really mean it.

    BTW: I will delete the “cancelled” thread and message because as I am reading it, it must have been some mishap. If not, go ahead and start it again.
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251

    you have been right, thx for deleting :)
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Dear Readership,

    before I go on, I would like to clear s. th. up. For me Ahimsa is the highest principal in thinking and acting, even often it´s difficult to act and think in the way of Ahimsa. Now it can be started a philosophical discussion what Ahimsa really is, but I think my message is clear.
    I prefer to communicate in a peaceful way. So if I hurt s. o. I am sorry for this. It´s not my intention, but I am not perfect and I can only try to endeavor. If s. o. wishes to hurt me, I don´t mind (with this I don´t assume that s. o. has the wish to do that!).
    The following point happened on another place, so I think it is necessary to clarify my personal statement:
    With pressure, insult or other methods of slaughter, especially on personally level, you can´t reach me neither at my weak spots, nor in my belief. Even if you want to assure, that I am not logical in my thinking or s. th. like this. Be sure, with that kind of acting my belief will become stronger.
    swAmi don´t need my defense or protection, it´s just my ego, which is coming up. So I am sorry my Yogasisters and Yogabrothers, if I am damaging you with my acting.

    Fact is: staying with swAmi was always a fight with family, friends and strangers, also with yogasisters and yogabrothers. Most of the time there are people which are frightened of kults, sekts, gurus and so on. Even they are frightened grabbing their luck by the scruff of its neck. When you overcome this fight with general people, especially also with yourself, the inner peace grows – it´s not for eternity but it grows from time to time, more often and deeper.
    In my awareness and observations the most of general people don´t have inner peace and attack where ever they can. In my opinion many disciples left swAmi because of the high outside influence (family, friends, strangers and pleasures concerning material world), which is touching us every day and in addition to that because of their doubts and weaknesses.
    So my experience on the one side with these people with a lot of fear and force, instead of empathy, understanding and inner peace and my experience at the moment with swAmi (support, inner felling and so on) totally agree with this, what happens now. So even if I would talk to some of the “girls” it wouldn´t lead me to throw overboard my beliefs and my inner feelings.
    First I was shocked, then confused, then I got distance to all this and now I am clear again. The stories don´t touch me anymore. Why I am writing then? My purpose includes making clear how difficult it is to warp s. o. from their beliefs.

    Why should I throw overboard my beliefs, if I am feeling well and happy? Because of taking the beliefs of people who don´t have inner peace, complain everything and want to persuade that their way is the right one, even when they are not happy? My family, friends and mates wouldn´t get enough of these stories, because of getting confirmed their view of life and because of stepping up themselves. When they say: “Now you see what happened…” my beliefs get stronger, my inner peace and happiness grow. It is a good and deep feeling.
    That what happens just now is totally coherent with my picture of the world.

    This phenomenon is covered in psychological theories. It doesn´t matter how deep and how often it is brought up. It doesn´t change my inner feelings and my view of the world. It´s quite contrary to it.
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    So bermuenze, we are all week poor loosers because we decided to leave swAmi, and you, who firmly decided to stay are so powerful. And nothing we say could ever touch you in any way. What are you, a supernatural being, completely devoid of human emotions? that doesn't make you a perfect and whole human being.
    And you feel so selfimportant because you defeated your family and friends who worried about you and were afraid of you being brainwashed into a cult?
    I know of some general people, who are quite satisfied and live a peaceful life. Innerly content, even if they don't follow a guru.
    I did not throw aboard my inner beliefs and inner feelings. Actually I simply acknowledged them. and thus i left swAmi.
    The stories don't touch you? Are you void of compassion? You are feeling well and happy and don't care what is going on in that poor girl sitting next to you on the yidl seminar?... Expressing abuse and being ignored is coherent with your picture of the world? Is that what you are trying to say? And your principles stand above any simple human relationship, because you firmly belive you are on the right path and we are all wrong? Did i get your message right?
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    dear joyriver,

    thx for your post.

    I have forgotten to say, that I don´t care if s. o. pervert my words or misuses them...

    ...no, unfortunately you didn´t get my message right.
  • joyriver May 2011
    Posts: 101
    Reply to @baremuenze: I udnerstand you don't care.
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    thank you baremuenze
    I'm very happy to hear that you are not one of the crazy fanatics that are threatening my little sisters by mail and telephone
    I think you are on the right path
    you don't need to hear or discuss these crazy things from crazy unbalanced people
    please just enjoy your perfect world with no doubts and weaknesses
    my world is so imperfect
    I was sexually abused as a child, many times abused by may father, cheated by all my lovers and have big difficulties to survive in the material world
    I know that's not the worst because every minute in this pwrfect world you have some child dying from abuse or hunger and I'm alive and healthy and you will not believe with all this imperfection and these ugly things that are contaminating my inner world - because this is me, all is maya and I'm creating it, I'm still smiling and I love you
  • Ivan May 2011
    Posts: 161
    I have talked recently with someone well aware of the abuses for years. He won't leave swAmi because it's his life, he knows it and decided that everything he had learned and experienced outweighs the dark side. One of the abused girls (she actually doesn't feel abused, for her it was a divine experience) even said to me in a extremely angry tone that we are destroying all the phenomenal divine things swAmi has made. And than she disapeard from my friends list on FB... I'm sorry that I didn't tell her that all the good things were made by swAmi's followers, and all the divine atmosphere around swAmi has been made by loving and caring people around him.
    The same is with Isaac Tigrett in BBC documentary about Sai Baba. He said that he believes the statements of victims but nothing can change what he experienced with Sai Baba.
    At the end only cult brainwashing, nothing else... And the family and friends were completely right.
  • zazaza May 2011
    Posts: 5
    Reply to @baremuenze: If I understood you correctly your primary goal is to be happy.
    For me liberation is the goal. And as far as I can see liberation comes only trough truth.The truth liberates.
    Often we are willing to accept and live with lot of things because it is easier and more convinient. But sometimes we are strong enough to make a change To conquer The Freedom.
    So when you are ready, join us :)
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @joyriver: yes, that´s right.

    I don´t mind if someone wishes to hurt me (with this I don´t assume that s. o. wish to do that!).

    With pressure, insult or other methods of slaughter, especially on personally level, you can´t reach me neither at my weak spots, nor in my belief. Even if you want to assure, that I am not logical in my thinking or s. th. like this.

    Also, if someone misuses my words or pervert them, I don´t care.

    In my view of life most people try to force others to get their own view of life, even when they are not happy. Maybe my family and friends were worried about me, but after they have seen I am really ok and found inner peace,
    they got more worried. This was a very ironic situation. I found my inner peace and they became more worried, because they didn´t understand.

    In my experience people produce their own fear, complexes, problems on such stories concerning manipulation, cults and so on. They are frightened insteed of being glad that someone has found his own way and is happy. With their not understanding you can add jealousy and so on...they wanted to pull me (maybe not aware of it) back on their level, which I have been before - without inner peace, but discontent and unhappiness - because they didn´t understand.

    So it was always a fight with them, other brothers and sisters and myself. Some asked me if I am taking drugs. But it is very ironical that the most of these people, who couldn´t comprehend my feelings, my happiness, who assumed to me taking drugs - these people were drinking alcohol...

    ...these, who wanted to pull me on their level again - with no understanding for not drinking alcohol. I overcame the fight with growing inner peace.

    So that what happens concerning the stories now is coherent to my view of life.

    "campaign to pull people on their level". The fight was repeated again.
    First they shocked me, than I got confused and now I am clear again, after I got distance from this. They don´t convince me, so they don´t touch me anymore, but it doesn´t mean that I am ignoring them.

    My family and friends would take these stories grateful to welcome me again to their conditions. Therefore it´s difficult to convince me and with every new story my inner peace grows insteed changing of belief.

    Joyriver, is my message clearer now?

    You are neither lost souls, nor poor loosers. You are just part of this play in the world ;). I don´t think you are on the wrong way. Can you understand this?
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @pavitra:

    I am very sorry for what you experienced. You didn´t ask for violence...

    But that´s YOU - without minus and plus - that´s you and you are great :).
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Reply to @baremuenze: You have right to say or feel what is best for you, and speaking for myself, the last thing for me is to destroy someone else's beliefs or what he feels is right for him, in any case, finally we must respect everyone in their own autonomous way as a human being.
    And if you are clear of what you think is real, than follow it and don't bother. I personally am not here to insult no one, I am just questioning/examining whole thing and who will come to what conclusions, it's their business. I can not guarantee the meaning to anybody as nobody can guarantee the meaning to myself. I have to make the best of it, whatever it is and see if it will serve me, as long as I am sincere to myself and ready to see my position and take the responsibility upon myself in particular situations, I can not go further, I can not run away from my self and nobody can give you assurance, in all the situations of life, that you are doing the right thing, there is always something missing, but nevertheless you continue according to your perceptions and understanding.
  • baremuenzebaremuenze May 2011
    Posts: 251
    Reply to @batawe:

    thx to you.

    I don´t know if the stories are true or not and you are right with I am just according to my perceptions and understanding...
    I tried to explain it.

    Maybe it can help to find a better way for exposing "your truth".
  • pavitra May 2011
    Posts: 270
    Thank you baremuenze. You don't need to be sorry. I'm OK. It wasn't so bad, you know. I'm really grateful to be alive and my experiences made me stronger and also able to understand the suffering of others. I wanted to make the point that there are also bad things in life that happen and we are all in a process of learning and growing. Some lessons are really hard and I think that one important way to prevent abuses to happen is to speak about them, to understand the hidden reasons and the outside signs that may help a potential victim to recognize the abuse from the start and avoid to fell in.
  • Roman May 2011
    Posts: 347
    Baremuenze, nobody here wants to hurt you or anybody else. The trick is though that people also don’t want to be hurt. I would like to expose a glimpse of “my truth”. I personally think if there is injustice done anywhere in the world to somebody, it reflects on all of us. That is the whole idea of real peace conferences, charters of rights signing etc. These are not just photo-ops, they define us as humans. Therefore: humanitarian means that too. If we go a little bit deeper then we can say that if there are injustices done around us right and left, we cannot be real humans and humanitarians if we don’t try to stop them. Many times it is not possible because of time and place and many other obstacles, but there are many injustices we can somehow influence in our every day lives.

    If we say: “We are happy, balanced, heard some things which may be truth but we don’t know exactly and even if they were truth we still are happy and balanced and we won’t care because we will not disturb our peace and happiness under any circumstances,” then we are not those selfless enlightened “yogis” as we may feel about ourselves but quite selfish and self-absorbed another imperfect humans. Nobody is perfect, I will be the first one to admit it about myself. But if we all acted like you suggest through centuries, we wouldn’t be in satya yuga (the enlightened age) but in primitive, very violent and undeveloped state of human development.

    I am sure that you are somehow familiar with Ramayana. swAmi and many others present it as divine book about heroic deeds of a monkey king Hanuman and a human king Rama. I do not want to insult anybody’s feelings about their beliefs or religion, but if you read it carefully you will realize that it is very bloody book full of violence and prejudices. For example, Rama kills a man who helps him in a battle just for one reason. He wasn’t of the appropriate cast to be a warrior. Of course, by cutting his head off he would liberate him and the man can now peacefully rest in Rama’s divine kingdom. I’ll leave it to Batawe to find where this particular detail is (if he wants :), because I’ve read it at times when I knew Hindu scriptures very well but it’s been a while. If he won’t find this particular one I am sure that he can find many other heroic/violent examples (again, no pressure, Batawe). Same way you can look at Bhagavadgita. I remember how I had to twist my mind like a contortionist to be able to get around some obvious things like war, violence, killing of family members to name just few while explaining that this book is a must for a peaceful US yoga aspirant. I would always get many questions and I felt very uncomfortable because I didn’t really believe in it at the bottom of my heart.

    We are what we are. Happy and unhappy, peaceful and angry, attached and detached many times at the same time. We are humans. We don’t have to believe in evolution but we are the real proof of it. And we always have choice. To remain where we are or to move forward. Evolve. It’s up to us and nobody can tell us what to do. Because it belongs to us. Our body, mind and conscious.

    Have your peace, Barmuenze, you are always welcome here and nobody wants to hurt you or insult you (without provoking) but I will share “my truth” with you. I don’t want any of “your peace”.

  • Tony May 2011
    Posts: 172
    Here's a de-emotionalized analogy for you. Suppose there is this kitchen appliance manufacturer, a very popular brand, a strong name. The products have been around for many years, a great company.

    Now suppose that suddenly, an internet site appears where several customers claim that they had received severe electric shocks while using the blender. Some lost control of their fingers, and are really traumatized.

    The manufacturer denies everything, their product is perfectly safe. They begin to attack the integrity and the motives of the electroshocked consumers. The internet people cannot really prove that the blenders had shocked them. It's all just a smear campaign against the manufacturer, an old, traditional, trusted family brand. Four generations, no less.

    The online discussion forum start picking up. Some other people will join the online discussion and add their stories, yes, they actually got shocked too. But also people who like the blender company will join and start vigorously defending the brand. Some of them have had the blender for thrity years. They love it. Other anti-blender people start chiming in: they did not get electrocuted per se, but they hate the blender company for some other reason, a button fell off, the food from it always smelled like plastic, whatever, the blender sucks. Electrical engineers join, they have never even owned the blender, but they just like talking about blenders. Others assign a great sentimental value to the blender, it reminds them of their beloved late grandmother, they don't care (or know) much about electricity, just don't you dare criticize my granny's blender. She was a good woman!

    So, on the one hand, the plight of the electrocuted people gets somewhat drowned in all this unrelated noise. On the other hand, the entire situation does receive some exposure. Lots of things come out about the blender. Former senior management insider who quit the blender company reveals that they had switched to using a cheaper ungrounded wire from China, another engineer recalls replacing watertight rubber gasket with cheap plastic alternative. If all this is true, things suddenly look pretty bad for the blender company.

    Finally, then there are also people who have bought lots of shares in the blender company. They don't necessarily like the blender, some of them might have even gotten elcetrocuted themselves, but they know they have to deny the problem because the scandal would hurt the stock price. And the powerful blender company has even more to lose.

    There are literally hundreds of such forums discussing consumer electronics, cars, travel destinations, movies, anything. This is exactly the same. Some people had really bad experiences with the product, they want to warn others about it. Others defend it. So nothing that special or unusual is happening here.
  • michalsladek May 2011
    Posts: 17
    Reply to @zazaza: Spot on zazaza! That's exactly it! If the goal of life is being happy, one ends up disappointed. The very wish to be happy brings us with conflict with that that IS! Life situations come and go and we deal with them with the best possible way according to our current knowledge. In fact, it is the wish to be happy (and have it just for myself) that created this confused and problematic world today.
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Marvelous analogy Tony;), sweet as an apple-pie;), I was thinking in which category am I fitting now; maybe the electrical engineer, who bought the blender though!;), but starts to question its formative elements/reasons/sources and applying the analogy to "blenders as such", and analysing their inherent logic and the effects of its practical application in daily life. They say, customer is always right and every customer finds something that he dis/likes...;)
  • someonefromhungary May 2011
    Posts: 334
    :) in many senses, I also like Tony's analogy... my personal problem is that it's not so easy to get a new yoga community and years of knowing each other etc., as to buy a new blender... :(
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    we forgot that WE bought the blender, no blender can blend that difference;) - blender can only Exist when We are there...;)

    ...even if we bought the blender, there is no such thing as blender-in-itself, it was always blender-for-us -> Our blender! The "object" is always "object-for-the-subject"; knowledge of the object was/is already the knowledge of the object for us - as the subjects...we don't know the object as such, our view is already a part of the perception/'truth'...
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Yes Roman, Ramayana, Bhagavadgita, Bible, Kur'an...inconsistencies and weird things you can definitely find, but believer doesn't question things, and if you do, or you 'appear' as a rebel, you are by definition of asuric character, but like I said, sterile devic qualities are nice, but limited in expression (you can paint only birds than, or flowers and daisies); one is stupid idiotism, which is more close to stupid conceptuality of asura, the other more important role of asuric element is dis-satisfaction with status quo and further expansion of complacent and limited apprehension of things...asura in that way moves the boundaries of that which is bound and conservative to new possibilites; in that sense I see the asuric elements, not as evil in itself but as a challenge to change things...but those devas that should be devas at the first place, fought for centuries in the Name of God, what about that? Who is asura here than?

    It looks as if those big names of spiritual personages remain a myth in people's minds, makes them subservient followers, no radical change is there, no new Buddhas, nor Mahaviras, no Rama's and who knows what...they all repeat stories which have no crucial impact on people...in that sense I very doubt the religious agenda of making more believers, for the sake of what? Definitely not for the sake of progress and re-evolution and really becoming free people...slavery and complacency and perpetuating the accepted order and beliefs...beliefs are suffocating people, not freeing them, and they all shout, Come!, Come!, we will set you free,,,it's all an Ideology,,,Wo/man must set her/him self free....not to underestimate the political and social circumstances; I am already implying that in normal circumstances of human living, only your own digging and questioning and growth into a sincere human being will set you free; free man doesn't impose anything on anyone...he has nothing he has to impose...only political oriented people impose their partial-party-mentality---
  • batawebatawe May 2011
    Posts: 409
    Recommending this reading of Nietzsche_Also Sprach Zarathustra:


    3. Zarathustra advocates a self-asserting individualism that by most standards would be considered reckless and immoral. Zarathustra has no interest in virtues that promote social peace, or a culture in which people place a high value on not upsetting or offending each other. Peace of mind is suspicious because it may come about at the price of muffling the real forces of life. Individuals whose thoughts and deeds are to reach great heights have to go into real depths: "With a person it is as with a tree. The more he aspires to the height and light, the more strongly will his roots strive earthward, downward, into the dark, into the deep-into evil." Outstanding spirits need to disregard the moral rules and sensibilities of the "herd." "And beware of the good and the just! They like to crucify those who invent their own virtue for themselves-they hate the lonely one." The more uncompromisingly people dare to follow their own individual inspiration, the more significant will be the results. A true view and appreciation of life is not "clouded" by moral categories at all: Life in its purest and highest manifestations exists "beyond good and evil."

    4. The price for this sort of individualism is a pervasive antagonism of forces and people, perhaps even "a war of all against all"(to use Hobbes's phrase). But that is nothing bad in Zarathustra's eyes. Every living being is motivated by a "will to power," by a will to assert itself, and struggle is an inevitable expression of being alive. "War is the father of all things," Heraclitus once wrote, and in agreement with this Zarathustra thought that nothing worthwhile would ever come about without strife. "Live dangerously!" is the advice that he gives to his friends. Even in love relationships risks must be taken. Getting hurt in a love relationship is nothing to be afraid of or bitter about, but rather an opportunity to grow and to respond creatively. "War" is not only an acceptable means, but also an important end in itself: "You say it is the good cause that hallows even war? I say: It is the good war that hallows every cause." To live a warrior's life is a supreme way of being.

    This must not be misunderstood, however, as an advocacy of the sort of militarism and nationalistic expansionism that began to run rampant toward the end of the 19th century. The "warrior" that Zarathustra praises is not a man in uniform, and not part of the mechanized fighting machinery that has become the hallmark of modern warfare. In his speech "On the New Idol" Zarathustra explicitly repudiates such things as patriotism or identification with a particular nation state as a vulgar form of self-alienation: "Only where the state ends, there begins the human being who is not superfluous."
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Devotee #3


Devotee #4 - Contact: valika.balazova@centrum.cz


Devotee #5 - Contact: synapseproblem@yahoo.de


Devotee #6


Devotee #7